Backcountry Pilot • Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

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Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

There has been some discussion on a few threads as to what a good comparison of STOL would be. After a little looking I found this chart that allows for a semi reasonable comparison. It is from a report written by Richard D. Hiscocks, of de Havilland fame. It has tons of great information on all of the DH Canada line of machines and their work on flap development and stability. Some on the Beaver and Otter, as well as their other stuff.

You just have to figure out what your airplanes pertinent numbers are and plot it on there. If you are interested in more reading on the subject, you can find a copy of the report. It is very concisely titled, "A Case Study of the de Havilland Family of Commuter Aircraft". I'm sure it was on the NYT best seller list at some point. :D

EDIT:
Sorry about not no explaination....
W = weight
b^2 = span of plane squared
Weight divided by b^2 gives the wing loading, and I think there was some discussion about that as well in some other threads.

The T/W is the thrust to weight ratio. That is a little more difficult for your average pilot to figure out, but you can probably replace it with P/W or power loading and generate a similar chart. T/W values are really there to show trends anyway and not required to put your airplane on the chart.

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Last edited by soggyc on Wed May 09, 2012 4:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

So....
You think your going to escape the Bullshit 'n Boots that easy? :lol:
Nice try.... 8) :lol:

lc
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Cool find, thanks.
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Well, Zane, if I understood it, I might think it was cool, too.
How about a basic explanation. I understand graphs, but need more orienting on the vertical axis on this. Is that 'span' as in wing span?
Maybe what the other abbreviations are, too.

I guess I'm more used to Bulshit 'n Boots... :)
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

soggyc wrote:There has been some discussion on a few threads as to what a good comparison of STOHL would be.


Does the H stand for hard? :o

Tim
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Littlecub wrote:Well, Zane, if I understood it, I might think it was cool, too.
How about a basic explanation. I understand graphs, but need more orienting on the vertical axis on this. Is that 'span' as in wing span?
Maybe what the other abbreviations are, too.

I guess I'm more used to Bulshit 'n Boots... :)
lc


No need to call bullshit just because you don't understand something. Don't you fly an early Cessna with loading charts that look like this? :) It's simply a chart with takeoff distance graphed against wing span loading to visualize data that we all kinda take for granted. The greater the span loading in what is assume is pounds per square foot, the greater the takeoff distance. The values appear in the legend along with what I think is mu, or variance.

How this defines the DH aircraft as qualifying for the STOL performance threshold (which one?) I do not know. Is it empirical data on their aircraft? Which model? Or is it an engineering goal?
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Hell, I just give it the gun and hope for the best, No time to look at charts!

Kitplanes writer Barnaby Wainfan had a great article a while back on the same subject, interesting topic for sure.
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Zane wrote: mu, or variance.

How this defines the DH aircraft as qualifying for the STOL performance threshold (which one?) I do not know. Is it empirical data on their aircraft? Which model? Or is it an engineering goal?



mu might also be the friction coefficient on the ground. Hard surface is usually that number if I remember correctly.

The chart contains data for un-named airplanes, and I also think it is an engineering goal. If you design something and it varies quit a bit from historical data and doesn't end up on those curves, you have to ask yourself, "Am I the best designer in the world, or am I an idiot." History generally favors the latter.
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

I don't know what 'mu' is in this case, but judging from the correlation, variance sounds like a good contender.

Here is a related report from the days when NACA used IBM Selectrics....

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930083224_1993083224.pdf

It's chocked full of useful, simple, easy to understand, back-of-the-envelope calculations that really spell out many of the more important performance numbers for small airplanes. There are a number of things to make you go 'hmmmm...'.

Most things really are just that simple for low speed flight.
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Funny this came up now. I have just been going over deHavilland data for STOL performance in the Twin Otter. It turns out that STOL is not a universally accepted term and only applicable in certain jurisdictions. STOL supplement is omitted in two of the three certification versions of the Twin Otter. STOL operations where only granted to a handful of 121 operators, the most notable was downtown London with the Dash 7.

In the Twin Otter, again. Its operation in the STOL regime is quite different from operating in a more traditional manner. In the classic STOL approach, the nose is so high that your actual intended point of landing is obscured by the long nose version. So it is pick the spot, aim about 100 yards in front when your energy and wind compensation point you figured in your head comes about, and haul back on the elevator and hold it at a very nose high attitude and you will float to the point and gently touch the ground (!). Brakes and reverse when the nose is on the ground. Even more important in the DHC-5 Buffalo, it had nose wheel brakes as well as the mains (in addition to ground actuated spoilers and other wizardry on the wing). I've brought a fully loaded Buff down in 365' in Southern Sudan in Max hot, deep mud conditions.

One of the classic mistakes in STOL, in the deHavilland nose draggers, is failure to keep that nose high attitude. You tend to land on the nosewheel in a "wheelbarrow" mode, a dangerous and rather uncontrollable configuration. Then again, most of the times you do this, you will most likely snap the nose wheel off above the fork. It happens often enough that deHavilland (now Viking) offers a station 60 repair kit.

I've got to offer a complete STOL syllabus for the DHC-6 for one of our government clients in the next couple of weeks. So I have been dusting off all the old material.

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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

Escape...
the Bullshit 'n Boots- boots being hip waders we need frequently around here because of the Bullshit.
Escape to graphs and data, as in science, which only appears here occasionally.

Nice try....
Because the momentum of existing habits die hard, and we (me, too) have trouble climbing out of our familiar-and comfortable ruts.
Also a Nobel attempt to herd us cats to graphs and data-because it is a 'better place'.....

Someday you will push me into being a better communicator, Zane. I need it, but your task won't be easy. :lol:

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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

qmdv wrote:
Does the H stand for hard? :o

Tim


:D For some reason I think it should have an H in there. I had to edit my typos a couple of times and didn't catch it.
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Re: Is your airplane really a STOL machine?

For some reason I think it should have an H in there.


A subconscious combining two of your favorite activities? :lol:

STOL + Stroh (Beer)= STOHL :lol:

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