58Skylane wrote:Our crew members wear a grounding strap on their shoe when pumping fuel or putting fuel into the race bikes.

Here's a similar product: http://www.labsafety.com/3M-Shoe-Grounding-Straps_24534327/

Here's some more excellent products from McMaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#static-control-shoe-straps/=6jiskp

Shoe grounding straps do work but only on a conductive floor like we have in the rocket factory where I work.

Why don't we ground our cars before fueling at a gas station?

Small Tail Caddy wrote:Why don't we ground our cars before fueling at a gas station?

The hose from the gas pump is a special hose that bonds the car to the pump and tank. That whole system is grounded.

RobBurson wrote:

Small Tail Caddy wrote:Why don't we ground our cars before fueling at a gas station?

The hose from the gas pump is a special hose that bonds the car to the pump and tank. That whole system is grounded.

Except when you're a wool-clad youngster who doesn't need to pull themselves up out of the driver's seat by touching the door frame, and you walk over to grab the filler hose and *zap* discharge the static buildup from scooching around the seat. It doesn't matter that the system is all bonded. YOU are not, and the static discharge to the vehicle ignites localized fumes.



This is a great Mythbusters episode that has some good footage of car fueling fires ignited by static discharge. It focuses mainly on the cell phone myth, but the fundamentals are all there, along with some fire.

That is why all the filling pumps say DO NOT GET BACK IN YOUR VECHICAL. In Oregon we can't fill our own cars because we are dumber than people in ALLLLL the other states.

You should know when you are in conditions where static is bad. I do. Because I keep getting zapped every minute. You better be real careful in those conditions.

RobBurson wrote:... In Oregon we can't fill our own cars because we are dumber than people in ALLLLL the other states.

We've known that for years up here in washington, but this is the first time an Oregonian has actually admitted it in public.

RobBurson wrote:That is why all the filling pumps say DO NOT GET BACK IN YOUR VECHICAL. In Oregon we can't fill our own cars because we are dumber than people in ALLLLL the other states.

Actually, New Jersey is that dumb to! Fortunately, I was able to get a prescription and moved to Pennsylvania!

My Jeep Wrangler has a plastic tank. AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Jr.

Consider the design of EVERY new car fuel filler: They ALL have a little door that remains closed till you push it open with a fuel nozzle. As you push that little door open with the fuel nozzle, you also BOND the nozzle, and therefore the fueling facility to the car's body/frame, and you do that BEFORE any vapors from the fuel tank can escape the fuel filler.

No fuel vapors around when the nozzle meets the car: No Fuel

Fuel Nozzle touches body: BONDING complete between automobile and fuel facility.

This is NOT rocket science, folks, and it also is NOT GROUNDING, fer cryin out loud.

MTV

Actually there are other holes in the top of the fuel filler. Mine are oval. There has to be for air to escape as you fuel.

All service stations in California and I think all of US have vapor recovery. In other words, as the tank in your car fills, the vapor in your tank goes back through the hose (the hose has two passages) and goes into the underground fuel tank to replace the gas that is coming out of underground tank. The underground tanks are no longer vented to atmosphere unless excessive preasure builds up in those tanks.

Tim

MTV, at the risk of driving you completely crazy. When the nozzle touches the filler door, doesn't that ground the car through the nozzle-hose-filling apparatus-ground? The car has to be grounded because the pump is. But your right, the car is bonded to the pump and the pump is bonded to the ground.

Gas station equipment is grounded, your car is not. That is also why you are supposed to take gas cans out when you fill them and put them on the ground. I used to fill 4 - 5 gallon cans in the trunk of my car before we started talking about this. Now I put them on the ground and touch the nozzle to the cans before I open and fill them. I am still using plastic cans but I think the charge will still come off of them. Just look at what a balloon does when you rub it on the carpet. It will shock the crap out of you once and then the charge is gone and you need to rub it on the carpet again.

From what I understand, as long as everything has the same electrical charge, all is well. Doesn't matter if both are grounded or not as long as both the filler and what is being filled both have the same electrical charge. They can either be bonded together or grounded (which removes the electrical charge, making both equal). You could look at grounding as Bonding them both through the ground.

I keep my plane tied up with chains which should keep it grounded. If the gas cans have a positive charge there has to be a spark to remove the positive charge. I set the cans on the ground first and then set them on the wing for a minute too. I don't want to quit self fueling but I want to make it as safe as possible.

Dropping fuel from your plane is bad because as MTV pointed out, the plane is not grounded. It can have a positive charge from the atmosphere . When the fuel falls through the air it can pick up electricity from the positive charged atmosphere plus the friction can generate electrical current too. When it hits something that is grounded it will spark. Surprising what you can learn from a pilot forum.

MTV Better use caps....dont think message is getting thru? (bonding)




p

qmdv wrote:All service stations in California and I think all of US have vapor recovery. In other words, as the tank in your car fills, the vapor in your tank goes back through the hose (the hose has two passages) and goes into the underground fuel tank to replace the gas that is coming out of underground tank. The underground tanks are no longer vented to atmosphere unless excessive preasure builds up in those tanks.

Tim

Plumbers should remember "shit" flows down hill and gas fumes flow uphill.

Bonanza Man wrote:Actually there are other holes in the top of the fuel filler. Mine are oval. There has to be for air to escape as you fuel.

BM,

Point is, when you first move the fuel nozzle to the filler, there isn't any vapor escaping from that other hole, or at least not much.

Jerry,

You are correct: As long as the fueling vessel and the fuel receptacle on equalized in charge (ie: BONDED --Thanks, Paul ) then there is little if any risk of static discharge. That bond has to remain connected during fueling however, since fuel movement will create static charges.

MTV

qmdv wrote:All service stations in California and I think all of US have vapor recovery. In other words, as the tank in your car fills, the vapor in your tank goes back through the hose (the hose has two passages) and goes into the underground fuel tank to replace the gas that is coming out of underground tank. The underground tanks are no longer vented to atmosphere unless excessive preasure builds up in those tanks.

Tim

Where is Tim

Someone is poseing as qmdv. Either someone is writing Tim's posts for him, or he is useing spell check. An entire paragrapg, and no spelling errors.

no they are different,

This is from rhtubs.com and is the introduction to a discussion on the two.

While many people mistakenly use the terms interchangeably, BONDING and GROUNDING are two very different things, with very different purposes. Again, bonding and grounding are DIFFERENT. HEY, they're even spelled differently. The very simple explanation of bonding is that it is done to prevent you from being shocked/electrocuted when your left hand touches one metal component, and your right hand touches another metal component. By running a wire (bonding wire) from one metal component to another, stray electricity (from a short for example) will equalize through the wire and one metal component will NOT have a greater voltage in it than another metal component. Grounding on the other hand is to give stray electrical current a place to go, other than through you. To some extent, the two work in conjunction with each other, sort of as backups for each other. BUT THEY ARE SEPERATE and DIFFERENT.

Goddammit!!! See the "This explains it all" thread I just posted.

Gump

with that I would agree