We've known Joe since the late seventies, back when he was still married to Dusty, his first wife. That is when he and his Dad were running the Toyota dealership in Placerville. He bought it from Dad and then sold it a few years later, and then there were some Law suits filed. He then went on to selling planes and did well. Wife and I have been friends with Joe and Doralee for a long time and socialize with them from time to time. Those that have never been in business for themselves don't understand the in and out of owning and running a business, and what it takes to survive. It's a lot more involved than sitting back and watching all that $$$ roll in. A business owner has to look at all things and decided what works best to keep it afloat, more so now than ever with profit margins getting smaller. We've owned our business for forty years and things are a lot different since 2008. I wish Joe the best with this crap. I wonder if he has pissed off someone with a lot of pull?
Ron

I have never met the guy or done business with him. I just want to add, don't be too quick to judge. I just walked away from a pretty good sized motorcycle dealership because I saw no way to recover losses after the crash of 2009 without going into personal debt for the rest of my life. For doing the smart thing, a thing that lawyers and finacial advisors recommended, I look like a total loser on paper, and maybe even a crook to some. There is no love in this pre-socialist society for anyone who trys to make it in business. There is even less love if you did what your lawyers told you to do, and protected yourself behind the corporate veil.

I have a story of something that happened to us once that is simular to Joe Stancil's.

I had the department of treasury come to my shop once in 2007. They accused me of laundering money, right at my front counter, as I ate a $5.00 bean and cheese burritto (probably my only meal that 15 hour day) because I sold multiple bikes to a real estate investor and took payments (before the bikes were delivered to him) of $5000 to $7500 cash, and wrote several loans (through GE financial, all I did was type in the info) to his girl friend, sister, buddy, which were paid off within 6 months (I would have no way of knowing, nor should I care)
Now, I was sitting on piles of sportbikes costing me interest everyday they sat there. This guy had money and a bad sportbike consumption habit. I was not is a position to turn him away because he seemed fishy. The bike he paid for in chunks of cash got a bunch of custom stuff done and took about a month to get done, and the payments were recieved by several different employees who only knew that the computer said the guy had a balance owing. My employees were not in the habit of turning money away, and why should they be?

The department of treasury suppeonaed all of our reciepts for about a year of business and that was the end of any investigation into me, but I lost sleep over it.
Had this been airplanes instead of motorcycles, and had my customer been a drug cartel instead of a real estate crook, I bet I would have fouond myself in a heap of shit.

Just saying, don't judge. You never know who will knock on YOUR door wanting answers.

D.

BTW, the bike guy is still being prosectuted and may be the biggest real estate loan fraud case in the history of Oregon. He took over 27 million. He also owned a helicopter flight school with 5 helicopters and cashed student loan checks and spent the money before the students even knew they had gotten the loan checks. Desert Sun helicopters.

So,,I guess it's OK for the government to sale Gun's to the Drug Cartel ...Instead of planes,,,

I talked about this deal with one of the biggest Yacht Brokers on the West coast. He says, just his opinion now, there ain't no way no how that the principle didn't know what was going on. Just saying. He's had many guys walk through the door, particularly in his Southern California operation wanting to buy a boat.....for cash. Sorry pal. No can do. I've already made my observations about making the moving of merchandise a crime. I still think that the criminal is the criminal. Not the place where the criminal shops. I'm undoubtedly wrong on this and I can truly see that it's a method of tracking criminal activity. I suppose it's a necessary evil. I have no clue what the optional solutions might be. Legalize the stuff I guess. Take the money out of it.

I know of half a dozen guys, usually from the Southern states, that keep a safe in the house with cash in it in case the Chinese finally succeed in taking our on line banking systems down. There has to be a better way. My condolences to Joe and his family. I hope my Yacht broker friend is wrong.

52Romeo wrote:So,,I guess it's OK for the government to sale Gun's to the Drug Cartel ...Instead of planes,,,

Or print more money when they get low on it.

Marijuana-Filled Cessna Intercepted After Flying Too Close to Air Force One

http://nycaviation.com/2012/02/marijuana-filled-cessna-intercepted-after-flying-too-close-to-air-force-one/

You can sell an 80,000 dollar plane for cash. It is not against the law to do this. It is just that when you make that 80 grand deposite it make a lot of paperwork for you bank. If you do not hide stuff, they cannot find it accept in the bank where it belongs.

Tim

Glidergeek wrote:

52Romeo wrote:So,,I guess it's OK for the government to sale Gun's to the Drug Cartel ...Instead of planes,,,

Or print more money when they get low on it.

It appears that we are on the wrong side of the fence.

Guilty as charged. Too bad the DOJ didn't as enthusiastically track the guns they criminally let the narco's purchase. I believe Stancil should be held accountable for his actions, but then again, so should Holder and the clown circus he leads.

Flynengr

*******************************************************************************************************************************

http://www.justice.gov/usao/cae/news/do ... yPlea.html


United States Attorney Benjamin B. Wagner
Eastern District of California
Placerville Airplane Dealer Pleads Guilty To Hiding Financial Transactions
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Lauren Horwood
February 16, 2012
PHONE: (916) 554-2706

www.usdoj.gov/usao/cae
[email protected]

Docket #: 2:12-cr-00025 MCE



SACRAMENTO, Calif. — United States Attorney Benjamin B. Wagner announced that Stancil Enterprises Inc., a Placerville corporation that sold aircraft, pleaded guilty today to conspiracy to aid and abet structuring financial transactions. The guilty plea was entered before United States District Judge Morrison C. England Jr. Joseph Stancil, the owner and president of Stancil Enterprises, spoke on behalf of the company at the plea hearing, admitting the factual basis for the plea was accurate. As part of the plea, Stancil Enterprises agreed to forfeit $428,589 to the U.S. Government. Joseph Stancil and salesman Daniel Mathis were also charged with conspiracy to aid and abet structuring financial transactions.

Stancil Enterprises and its agents were required by federal law to report the receipt of cash in amounts exceeding $10,000 for a single transaction unless a bank was required to report the transaction on a Currency Transaction Report (relating to cash transactions of over $10,000 made for a single person or company in a single day).

According to the plea agreement, Stancil Enterprises sold multiple planes for cash in 2008 and 2009, to purchasers whom they believed to be Mexican, involving deposited cash they believed to be from illegal narcotics trafficking. The company and its agents knew that the buyers were structuring cash into the Stancil Enterprises account in increments of less than $10,000 in order to avoid federal cash transaction reporting requirements.

The company and its agents tracked deposits by these purchasers, requiring them to alert Stancil Enterprises of the deposits and which plane sales the deposits related to. Often the purchasers faxed cash deposit tickets to Stancil Enterprises as proof to ensure credit for the payment. They made deposits in such a way that the banks could not connect the transactions to a specific buyer or plane, and could not identify the individuals making the deposits or purchasing the planes, and therefore could not make a Currency Transaction Report for large cash transactions.

According to the plea agreement, in November 2009, an undercover agent with the Internal Revenue Service made contact with Joseph Stancil, stating that he wished to purchase a plane for his son with cash and asked for advice on how to accomplish that without having any reports filed on the cash transaction. Stancil’s response indicated that he understood that the fictional son was engaged in drug trafficking activity in Mexico, specifically marijuana. Stancil proceeded to advise the agent how “the Mexicans” did it, depositing cash in increments into Stancil Enterprises accounts. Stancil and the undercover agent proceeded into the office of Daniel Mathis, who advised the agent about Stancil Enterprises’ Form 8300 reporting requirement for such cash transactions. When Stancil asked how they got away with not reporting “the Mexicans,” Mathis advised that no one had ever “hassled” Stancil Enterprises about the issue. From September 2008 and through August 2009, Stancil Enterprises received $428,589.30 in structured funds for six planes, each with a separate buyer.

This case is the product of an extensive investigation by the Internal Revenue Service – Criminal Investigation and a Financial Crimes Task Force including the Sacramento Police Department and Sacramento County Sheriff’s Office. Assistant United States Attorney Jean M. Hobler is prosecuting the case.

United States Attorney Benjamin Wagner noted that Stancil Enterprises lost not just its profit but its investment in the planes. Wagner stated: “Selling to criminal elements and helping them conceal their cash is a losing proposition. Stancil Enterprises lost the planes to its customers and lost all of the payments for those planes through forfeiture to the United States, and put its employees and officers at risk of very significant time in prison. These crimes matter – doing business with drug dealers, from Mexico or anywhere else, enables these criminals to engage in dangerous criminal activity. We urge all businesses to review their own cash accounting practices and ensure that any suspicious cash transactions are reported according to the law.”

“The defendants knew that the buyers of the planes structured the cash deposits in order to avoid the reporting requirements,” said Marcus Williams, IRS-CI Special Agent in Charge. “Those who turn a blind eye to this kind of activity run the risk of having their assets seized. We hit them where it hurts - in their wallets.”

The defendant is scheduled to be sentenced by Judge England on March 8, 2012. The maximum sentence is $500,000. The actual sentence, however, will be determined at the discretion of the court after consideration of any applicable statutory factors and the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, which take into account a number of variables.

flynengr wrote: Stancil proceeded to advise the agent how “the Mexicans” did it.....

Ooops!

Just because someone pleads guilty doesn't mean they are. Most criminal cases are settled by plea agreements. I know of one case that is somewhat similar in that a friend of mine, who was the owner of a business was charged. He was not guilty and had the resources to fight the charges but the feds threatened to drag his wife and several of his employees into it and file charges against all of them. It quickly became apparent that they would just keep piling on until he couldn't afford to defend everyone in the company so he took the fall to protect them. Ended up spending two and a half hears in the federal pen for a crime that 1) shouldn't have been a crime and 2) never happened.

Best,
O-2

The news story makes it sound as if Stancil was not quite as unwitting a victim as I'd first thought. I thought maybe the cash deal for airplanes has gone unreported accidently-- apparently/allegedly not the case.

I am NOT taking 'sides'..
But I would ask all of you to remember that the economy & times are pretty tough, especially if you making your living selling high end discretionary toys. Sometimes cirumstances (which we know nothing about) and economic pressures push a person's perspective to be distorted from what it would be in better times.....

How many of us live up to our own expectations of ourselve all the time......?
Much less somebody else's?

I'm in there, too.....

lc

Little Cub
Thanks I did not know how to say that
X2

GT

Another well publicized black eye for GA, regardless of guilt. Dipshits.

Moral of the story?

Don't pay with cash, the government can't track you.

It's a shame that if you live within your means, and decide to deal in cash you are under suspicion.

It appears that Mr. Stancil screwed up, I get that.

I recently sold a car for $2000.00. The guy paid me in cash. I took the cash to a Chase bank to pay off a purchase I made on my chase card. The teller asked all sorts of questions, like I was under suspicion, because I had cash.

Did I read earlier in this thread that someone declined a transaction because the purchaser wanted to pay in cash?

WTF

XKV8R wrote:Moral of the story?

Don't pay with cash, the government can't track you.

It's a shame that if you live within your means, and decide to deal in cash you are under suspicion.

It appears that Mr. Stancil screwed up, I get that.

I recently sold a car for $2000.00. The guy paid me in cash. I took the cash to a Chase bank to pay off a purchase I made on my chase card. The teller asked all sorts of questions, like I was under suspicion, because I had cash.

Did I read earlier in this thread that someone declined a transaction because the purchaser wanted to pay in cash?

WTF

Isn't is pathetic how we've become a "guilty until proven innocent" society. Its BS in so many ways.

Um, let's see: You're selling a high ticket item. One that is VERY popular with folks who are very active in a certain well publicized smuggling activity.

Someone approaches you and says they'll buy that item from you, and pay cash, BUT, they'll need to pay that money into several bank accounts in bits and pieces.....(oh, and that someone happens to be from the region most of this illegal smuggling is coming from)

So, you open a dozen bank accounts to facilitate this kind of payment scheme.

Uh, wouldn't you be just a LITTLE naive to not smell some kind of rat in this program?

And, to the gent who pointed out that these are difficult times, particularly for those selling high end luxury items, a question: So, do difficult financial times justify breaking the law? Where's the statute that permits that?

I don't know the man, and I have no doubt there is FAR more to this story than has appeared in the media, but it sure SOUNDS like it would be difficult to prove innocence on this one.

And, by the way, the IRS is NOT part of the Department of Justice....

MTV

mtv wrote:Um, let's see: You're selling a high ticket item. One that is VERY popular with folks who are very active in a certain well publicized smuggling activity.

Someone approaches you and says they'll buy that item from you, and pay cash, BUT, they'll need to pay that money into several bank accounts in bits and pieces.....(oh, and that someone happens to be from the region most of this illegal smuggling is coming from)

So, you open a dozen bank accounts to facilitate this kind of payment scheme.

Uh, wouldn't you be just a LITTLE naive to not smell some kind of rat in this program?

And, to the gent who pointed out that these are difficult times, particularly for those selling high end luxury items, a question: So, do difficult financial times justify breaking the law? Where's the statute that permits that?

I don't know the man, and I have no doubt there is FAR more to this story than has appeared in the media, but it sure SOUNDS like it would be difficult to prove innocence on this one.

And, by the way, the IRS is NOT part of the Department of Justice....

MTV

I agree with you, Mike.

BTW....... The IRS is really THEIRS ("Their" money ).

When you do a large cash transaction and the bank is involved, simply do the required paperwork and you are fine. If you are skirting the government, and IRS you are playing with fire and gas. If you think you can avoid the IRS by making multiple deposits under 10K your a fool. IMHO.

GOOD DAY