When is a good time to call Brian ? Interested in the Avionics on board also. I'm in and surrounded by B class and Mode C

I have been looking at Pacers and wanted to know about 135 hp 0-290 engines Too underpowered to consider ? Parts problems ?

Also saw a good plane that was at 1789 TSMOH Lycoming 0-320 Not sure which but when I told the seller I couldn't afford to buy a plane needing an overhaul that soon He replied the Motor had lots of time left

Just like buying a used car

sierrasplitter wrote:I have been looking at Pacers and wanted to know about 135 hp 0-290 engines Too underpowered to consider ? Parts problems ?

Also saw a good plane that was at 1789 TSMOH Lycoming 0-320 Not sure which but when I told the seller I couldn't afford to buy a plane needing an overhaul that soon He replied the Motor had lots of time left

Just like buying a used car

I was looking at a C140 with O-290-D and was told by my mechanic that I better be ready to bend over for the parts man when something went wrong. He said a set of rings for an O290 ran about $900. Same price as an entire cylinder assembly for an O320. My only evidence of this is what my mechanic said. I'm inclined to trust him since he's the one ordering the parts and had no dog in the game otherwise.

Although TBO is a good standard to determine value by, it is not a deadline that requires action in part 91 operations. If it has good oil pressure, compression and is not making metal, they regularly go well beyond TBO. If you can get it at a price that acknowledges the remaining engine life, it could be a good time builder for several hundred hours or more. Flight schools will run O-320's to 4000 hours if they are healthy. AOPA has some good articles on this subject.

Second on Delta Romeo. These motors aren't high rpm race units... They're slow rotation tractor motors. The o290 is a great motor, parts are available maybe a bit pricier, but they are around. If you find a smoking hot deal on a 290 bird that passes muster buy it, just plan on swapping it out to o360 if you have anything more than a jug r&r type repair. The biggest issue with the 290 is the valve size, if you have a recently rebuilt example with 1/2 valves it too could last 4000 hours. I also have a 600 smoh spare I don't need I can sell cheap. With all of that stated the biggest reason I wouldn't buy an o290 bird is power, if you really want to fly off airport than you want all you can get, especially when you consider a bunch of the backcountry flying in the lower 48 is at altitude.

All I need now is a visit to my Tax Man. With the new tax code I need to find out what I am going to owe this year, but want to go over him my purchase options.
Other than that Money is in the bank, and I go sometime within the next few days to fly a pacer !!! With 26 inch tires no less
That's the biggest hurdle left.......finding out if I can fly a Pacer

I have done research on why a 290 is less desirable other than power. I will stay away from those
I also need to call a local Avionics shop to try to get a ballpark amount its going to cost to go to ADS-B out and to call Bruce's Aircraft Covers to find out how much wing covers will be
I'm slowly marching to my goal.

My wife asked last night why I haven't been planning to go look .

I do like the plane in Oregon owned by a friend of Brian

and this one

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified ... +PA20.html

1559 TSOH on the engine above

Both would need transponder upgrade

Just a quick note on power difference with O290 vs O320. I upgraded from O290 D2 (135 hp) on my 7GC Champ after more than 700 hours on it, put in a O320 B2B (160 hp). Had to re-pitch the prop from 7841 to 7844. Takeoff distance was about the same, but the increase in climb rate was significant, like from 550 to 800 fpm.

Finally ! Got to fly a Pacer. Found a CFI in Shafter CA



Drove up Sunday ......At this point I had my mind made up about buying a Pacer, but had never rode or flown one . Got to do my first dirt landing at Shafter then it was across the Southern Sierra to Kern Valley for Breakfast

Back across the Mountains to the cow fields of Bakersfield and did some landings on a dirt track in a cow pasture

Now I'm sold.....................but dammit my budget needs to increase to get some mods. Mostly at least 8.5 tires









Now all I have to do is find MY pacer

sierrasplitter wrote:Finally ! Got to fly a Pacer. Found a CFI in Shafter CA



Drove up Sunday ......At this point I had my mind made up about buying a Pacer, but had never rode or flown one . Got to do my first dirt landing at Shafter then it was across the Southern Sierra to Kern Valley for Breakfast

Back across the Mountains to the cow fields of Bakersfield and did some landings on a dirt track in a cow pasture

Now I'm sold.....................but dammit my budget needs to increase to get some mods. Mostly at least 8.5 tires









Now all I have to do is find MY pacer

Nice! That’s a good example of the breed for sure!

Well, I pulled the trigger. Offer is in and has been accepted. I have to go through the Inspection and fly it but I found the one









1956 PA 22/20 150 Hp Climb Prop 70 hrs on the engine and prop ADS-B out Cleveland Disc

Thank All of you for your help.

Now---- Insurance AOPA is 1430 a year

I am going back and searching for other companies to try to get a better rate

Again, thanks And get ready for more questions

SWEET!!

Congrats! I was looking at that one myself.
Looking forward to reading about your experiences with it.

sierrasplitter wrote:Well, I pulled the trigger. Offer is in and has been accepted. I have to go through the Inspection and fly it but I found the one









1956 PA 22/20 150 Hp Climb Prop 70 hrs on the engine and prop ADS-B out Cleveland Disc

Thank All of you for your help.

Now---- Insurance AOPA is 1430 a year

I am going back and searching for other companies to try to get a better rate

Again, thanks And get ready for more questions

Beautiful airplane!!!

For insurance, I recommend Dana Boucher. 913.529.3213

[email protected]

He’s gotten me excellent rates every year, and I was really low on TW time when I bought my Pacer.

EDIT: just saw it has electronic ignition, nice!

EDIT 2: “great rates” above is on a policy that has identical coverage to I would have gotten from other companies (to include AVEMCO) at the full hull value of my airplane. Dana found the same coverage at a more affordable price.

sierrasplitter wrote:Well, I pulled the trigger...
Now---- Insurance AOPA is 1430 a year

I am going back and searching for other companies to try to get a better rate

Again, thanks And get ready for more questions

Well done!

Offhand I don't even know who my insurance carrier is, though it's through AOPA. For comparison, I pay around $1,700 a year on a C-170 for $70k hull and a million liability...I think. That's for 3,000ish PIC, 2,000+ tailwheel PIC, over 1,000 in type PIC, High-HP, Instrument, Commercial, Multi-Engine, and zero claims/violations/infractions or other nonsense.

Whatever you do, don't underinsure it. For a few hundred additional bucks per year you go from insurance you hope you'll never have to resort to, to insurance that lets you walk away with a check that will pay in full for your next airplane.

More than one pilot has killed themselves trying to save an underinsured airplane rather than landing it somewhere that they will most likely survive, but the airplane won't. Really good insurance opens up a lot of landing options you won't see otherwise...

Wow, I never thought of my insurance coverage while making an emergency landing, just two in the last 30 years. Last thing on my mind at the time....more of a caveman type/basic survival instinct/ getting it on the ground wherever it was safest, which usually also means least damage? You're saying people choose to land more dangerous places just to save a buck? I'm going to land the best place to save my ass, every time, and if that means the plane gets totaled so be it, insurance has nothing to do with a real split second decision in an emergency landing, at least for me.

courierguy wrote:Wow, I never thought of my insurance coverage while making an emergency landing, just two in the last 30 years. Last thing on my mind at the time....more of a caveman type/basic survival instinct/ getting it on the ground wherever it was safest, which usually also means least damage? You're saying people choose to land more dangerous places just to save a buck? I'm going to land the best place to save my ass, every time, and if that means the plane gets totaled so be it, insurance has nothing to do with a real split second decision in an emergency landing, at least for me.

Yes. That happens. Trying to stretch a glide to save the single biggest financial investment that person has other than their house.

If you're stone-cold and calculating when the engine goes from humming to sputtering, then great! Many people are not. A bit more money on insurance to take that issue off the table is money well spent, especially for an new pilot, in my opinion.

Apologies for going off-topic but I heard a really good explanation from a guy who did a gear up landing in (someone else's) P51. He said that at that point the airplane has let you down and its only purpose is to get you to the ground alive. I don't think I would be thinking about insured hull value. My son flys my plane and the only thing I ask of him is to fly it all the way to the ground.

daedaluscan wrote:Apologies for going off-topic but I heard a really good explanation from a guy who did a gear up landing in (someone else's) P51. He said that at that point the airplane has let you down and its only purpose is to get you to the ground alive. I don't think I would be thinking about insured hull value. My son flys my plane and the only thing I ask of him is to fly it all the way to the ground.

Sooo...he had no skin in the game, other than the one he was wearing. Also, if he's flying someone else's P-51, he probably has more developed aviation-related decision making abilities than someone who just financed their very first airplane. He's also probably insured by Lloyds of London as the pilot of the P-51, so finances never had to enter his mind when the flight went poorly.

How many pilots try to get back to the airport instead of landing straight ahead when the engine stumbles on climb out? Granted, there's more than money in that decision matrix, but trying to save the airplane is certainly a (large) part of it. Maybe I'm the only guy on BCP dumb enough to make poor decisions under stress while trying to salvage my financial assets, but I doubt it. I'm not saying it's smart, but very little in human nature is.

And it's not like all forced landings involve a dead engine...there are a thousand scenarios where the smart decision is to scuttle the aircraft in a field, but there are a half-dozen other options still on the table...but they're not as safe.

My point is to take the financial aspect out of that decision matrix. Don't put yourself in the position of not being able to afford wreaking the airplane you're flying. ESPECIALLY as a new pilot who stretched their budget to buy their first airplane.

For crying out loud, the difference between fair and great insurance is usually less than five tanks of gas per year. Is anyone actually advocating going for the cheapest insurance rather than the best?

I can already see the pages of post by people who are adamant that money (or ego, or convenience, or pride, or peer pressure or...) never crosses there mind in a emergency, and I suspect most of them believe it. I don't... I think human nature is what it is, and it makes a lot more sense to admit that and address it ahead of time rather than to believe you'll rise to the occasion when the chips are down.

As always, just my opinion.

Good points, but what I try to take away from his talk, and try to impress on my son, is that the airplane is not your primary concern. Flying it to the ground and not stalling it at 50 ft will improve your chances of living to fly again.

And yes a decent hull value does not change a premium that much. I bump mine a little each year.

Hammer wrote: ....Offhand I don't even know who my insurance carrier is, though it's through AOPA. For comparison, I pay around $1,700 a year on a C-170 for $70k hull and a million liability...I think. That's for 3,000ish PIC, 2,000+ tailwheel PIC, over 1,000 in type PIC, High-HP, Instrument, Commercial, Multi-Engine, and zero claims/violations/infractions or other nonsense......

I have about the same number of hours as you (but no instrument / commercial / multi ratings), and likewise no claims / infractions etc.
I insure a similar but slightly different airplane (C180) for the same amount, and pay about $1040 a year.
IMHO either I'm getting a great deal or you're getting hosed. Or maybe a little of both.
I used to insure through Bill White, switched over to Regal this year when they had a little better price.