Anyone have any experience with the LA-4-200. I know about its unique flight characteristics but am looking for first hand experience. Also if there is anyone who has owned and insured one, what was your insurance costs.

I really am liking those more and more. Captain Bill, up here in Chelan has one and I ride in it about once a week. I really like how it handles but I do not have a lot to compare it too. We approach REALLY steep, around 1500 FPM at 60, take off at 60, cruises about 105. They view out of it is great too, and it is pretty cool to be able to open up the door and test the water temp with your hand.
I keep watching for a one at a "deal", like broken and cheap. I'll watch this thread, I am interested in what others have to say about them..

thanks for the input. Have you ever flown in it at gross weight? I cant find any info on how well they get off the water when fully loaded. If your looking for one cheep there is a LA-4-180 for sale on barnstormers for 28K. I would personally wont the 200hp but at that price if I had the funds I would buy it in a heartbeat. I keep looking at lakes as a possible next plane, and for the price they seam pretty hard to beat.

Actually the one I ride around in is a 180, and not a 200. Capt. Bill keeps it light. I have only been in it with 2 seats in it (back ones left out) and 1/2 fuel and we fly early when it is cool and calm. I don't think they are real awesome preformers but around here we have really long lakes.

DavidB. wrote:.... it is pretty cool to be able to open up the door and test the water temp with your hand.....

See how you like that lack of freeboard in rough water. Better hope the door seals are watertight.

I did my ases in one and some more pic after. Really odd to fly at first but once your used to it it's fun and rewarding to land. They tend to flair themselves since you have to provide some forward pressure to counteract the high thrust line. There were a lot of water accidents up in ak I heard. definitely really slow with two people in hot climate. Feels like your flying a boat..

There were never a lot of Lake accidents in Alaska, mostly because there were never a lot of Lake airplanes in Alaska. They never really caught on, for whatever reason. There have been, however, many accidents in Lake aircraft. In fact, there was a point where the factory had to create a training program for new Lake pilots which became required if you were to get insurance coverage.

There are a lot of Lakes in Florida these days, and training and knowledge of the aircraft is available in FL. I think they've for the most part figured out the accident scenarios, which are largely related to the very high thrust line.

I don 't know what parts availability is going to be like, however....

MTV

Owned a 200 for 5 years. Handled 2000 ft grass strip better than most amphibs. Once learned with proper instruction no real problems. Re the comment on freeboard, don't operate a Lake in those conditions. The hull deadrise is fairly flat and is not designed for rough water. If you see whitecaps or large swells stay away. This was drilled into me by one of the most experienced Lake pilots in NA (Elton Townsend) during my training. Not recommended but if you know how they do a very nice skate stop. Also have spun it with instructor - fairly wild but easily recoverable. Like most 4 place singles, it performs best as a 2 place.

what could I expect insurance costs to be for a 0 time SES pilot. I would get speciality lake training of course. Also how much did parts cost and how hard were they to get?

Ahh the Lake 200,

I've spent the last year working as a broker, helping an ex airline owner put his hangar queen machine back right. Its not been easy, and if we had found out that Paul Furnee of Aircraft Innovation was so reasonable to deal with we would have saved alot of hassle. In summary we had to:

Hone Cylinders and Put on Oversized Rings
Oil/Plugs/Filters
Rebuild Oleo's
Rebuild Flap Actuator
Switch from Irish to American Reg
New Alternator, Mag Overhaul, Replace Starter

When we first flew it, it scared the bejesus outta me. Ran rough, and was not producing full power, in hindsight the noise of the airplane masked out the warning noises. I came very close to reproducing the accident of G-SKID in the UK. http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/dft_avsafety_pdf_028748.pdf. Then we got Paul over, and boy did he sort it out in double quick time. The previous owner had not used it much on water and the bungs had rusted. The rusted bungs were drilled and tapped for an AN bolt. An impromtu landing on the water with these "see through" bungs in place certainly gave us lots to deal with. We have a buyer secured now, and the plane is leaving on a ferry flight this week.

If I was buying a lake, I'd only buy one that had its annual inspection with a Lake specialist each year. They just require someone who deals with them all the time to pin point the gremlins. The 200 seems to perform quite well on the water, and I did like it. I have 700hrs float time and it is not a difficult airplane to fly. It would be a great fun, 2 seat toy if you had access to cheap Avgas. They used to run them on Mogas down in the desert in the middle east. Paul says they put in another full time fuel pump down low in the system. A field mod so to speak.

It's a love hate relationship. I'm glad to have experienced it.

William

NTSB report ANC86LA119 may help.

Slips wrote:NTSB report ANC86LA119 may help.

How is that report relevant to the safety of a Lake Amphib? It looks to me like it had more to do with low visability, low ceilings, and mountainous terrian than it did with the type of aircraft.
I am not defending, or knocking Lakes. I like them and the guy who lets me fly with him in his Lake LOVES his, and the other two guys at my airport with them, LOVE them. Most of our lake around here are really long and there is enough of them around that an ampihib makes a great toy for local flights. I am not really considering one, but if the right deal came along.......

Does anyone have experience taking off in one at gross weight at sea level, in the summer time. Will the plane do it?

In brief yes,

I operate out of water @ 2-3K all summer with mine. If your interested I'll elaborate, but off to work right now
KAM

Yes please. I am interested in being able to take my wife and son to go camping with it and would love any info on operating it at gross. Also how expensive are parts for lakes.

CFI,
My LA4-200EP with full interior and heater has a payload of 930, during summer when camping the heater comes off the carpets come out as well as the rear seat ( about an hour and a half of work) yielding 990 payload. Throw back in Two BIG guys, 54 gal. 100LL and a weeks camping gear and your near gross! I operate this way all summer in Northern BC, ID, WA, MT on water up to about 3K MSL (4.5K DA ) and out of turf strips to about 5K MSL ( 6.5K DA )
The 200EP does not tolerate overloading well and is actually best 100 under it's 2690 gross, this results in climb rates of 700+ @ sea level during summer with of course significanly better cool wx performance.
Inspite of the factory's departure from the living, parts are available and are not to obscene, nowwhere near like some aircraft, a lot of the parts are hand fab. and can be readily be reproduced if unavailable othewise.
There is a great type club with lots of info as well as 4-5 Lake specialty shops around the US and Can which can provide almost any part or answer any ? Need More? and I'll hook you up>
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... re_088.jpg
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... GP0643.JPG
KAM

PS. I love the airplane and they will get mine when they pry it out of My cold dead hands!

Lakes are sounding more and more apealing. It seams to be the best bang for the buck in the amphibian world. It also sounds like they handle grass a lot better than float planes. I can't find any info on the baggage compartment on the lake. Where is it and how big is it? Ultimately I'll be flying my 172 till I get it payed off and the engine overhauled, hopefully next year. Great pics by the way I wish I could find some fish that size in VA.

P.S.
Is the wing spar ad a one time ad?

If I was buying a Lake, then I'd be trying to find one that was mechanically cared for all it's life. These airplanes could easily have ended up not been cared for by anyone who ever really knew Lakes. I wouldn't give a damn for paint/interior/avionics.... The original bird that was it's owners obsession would be my pick. An annual inspection can vary from the basic to the complete;
See http://aircraftinnovation.com/maintenance/inspectionchecklist.html

In an airplane that would be operated far from home, and out on the water. I'd love to know that it was in the best possible order. I know the few that are over here in Ireland have had very chequered histories. The distributor here "Lord Headford" crashed two in the one day. Thats more bad luck than a reflection on the airplane.

I've been mad to pick up a Thurston Teal, but eveyone keeps talking me out of that one

Irish

CFI,

Those are Dinner fish! The big ones stay in the water, to much for one or two meals!

Your 172 exp. if its a 180hp will give you a perfomance index, not quite as fast Stall 39kts, climb 700+ hot summer, 1000-1100 winter light, low alt cruise 105kts, higher alt cruise 110kts ( 8k DA). Its a draggy airplane and is a little alt. challanged, ceiling is supposed to be 14.5k, and I've had mine close but its a struggle. There are a few turbo 200s out there and of course they do better. I operate out of one lake in the cascade mtns @ 2.5k all summer and at near gross during summer ( DAs 3.2? ) thats 1 nm long with trees at the end, when its glassy and no head wind its enough .

The wing AD ( In MHO it was a BS deal by some people to sell parts ) is one time with a flashlight and mirror inspection @ annual, about 10min worth. Airs ( http://www.airinnov.com/ ) is one of the premier Lake shops, Paul was the enginner at Lake that developed the 200EP, 250 & 270T and has some 12k hours in the planes. His inspection check list is very exstensive aand covers it all.

The baggage is behind the rear seat, seat back tilts forward for access for small stuff, or for major packing seat lifts out in 2 min.held in by belts about 10lbs. Baggage box is about 4.5ft long and 34 inchs wide and 16 high, ( main fuel tank is above ). When out camping solo I slide the co-pilot seat forward all the way and actually can and do stretch out and sleep in there with my feet in the bag box ( No rear seat )

It actually is a pretty good rough turf airplane ( I probably just turned the heat on ) its slow stall and big trim tabs and elevator allow one to keep the small nose wheel off the dirt until very slow then drop it on and stop short. You can then taxi slow and careful watching for gopher an P dawg holes. Its not a Supercub or like but not bad and between water and turf, lots of opportunity presents its self.

Some of the strips I hit are in MT. Schafer, Meadow Creek, Spotted Bear. In ID Magee, Cavanaugh, Moose Creek. Also while not fast I make it from Watson Lake, the Yukon to Seattle in one day as long as its at least good IFR. ( I don't do hard IFR with it).

As irishc180 indicated ramp queens can be very intense restorations, they are quite complex for there size, and alot of it is hard to get at! Not like your 172! But for as complicated as they are they are quite durable. I've seen one that was bellied into an alfalfa field after an engine failure that required no more the the engine to be fixed and the alfalfa stains cleaned off the hull, absolutely no damage!!

As far as the accident rate, its almost always lack of training and proficency, its really not that difficult to fly well but it is different! The Lake community has a comprehensive syllabus that has significantly impacted the issue that was present back in the 70s-80s. A lot of the planes don't fly alot in the winter and few folks tend to jump in them and head to the wilds, with out working up to it in the spring. Guess what happens, just like alot of the spring accidents in other aircraft.

I've had mine for 11 years and about 1600 hours and can't imagine being with out it! But having a Cub or Scout in addition to get to places the Lake can't go would be GREAT

Hope I havn"t bored you, KAM