Backcountry Pilot • Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

Discuss the legality of flying the backcountry, FARs, advocacy, and aviation relevant legislation. Registered users only.
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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

PapernScissors wrote:
Here's some information for Montana. Similar requirements (and prohibitions regarding landing fixed wing and rotor wing aircraft) exist in Washington, Idaho, and Oregon. Check the appropriate FAA Sectional in the lower forty-eight states. All of the Sectionals I've seen have similar restrictions if there are any Federal public lands in the areas charted.


Landing of aircraft at locations other than public use airports may be a violation

All aircraft are requested


As I mentioned in my last post, there is no question on wilderness, refuges, scenic byways, national parks etc. it's actually on all sectionals. No question. Public lands however are different.

I love the buzz words "may be a violation" meaning there's no answer

And my favorite word "requested" meaning you have a choice

Just my 2c is all. I'm a matter of fact guy. Grey areas are just what they are. Grey
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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

A few months ago I was wondering about a trip to upper paradise lake in the seward ranger district chugach national forest, and wondering if I could legally land in that area. So I called the rangers and they directed me to the LE guys. After a brief conversation, I was set.
They said it was fine to fly and land anywhere in the foreat. Don't haze critters of other users of the lands, and fly safe! They even spoke of some old abandoned strips that I could look for. I asked about clearing the strips for safety's sake, and they said "Do what you need too in order to be safe in your plane, not a 747!" Understood! Now I've opened a dialogue with the LE guys, and have them on OUR side. So now I'm out enjoying and exploring the public lands like they should be. Id rather be out there then in here typing this any day of the year. That's my 2 cents on the subject.....
Its not always better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission. ;)

Log.
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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

Logpile wrote:A few months ago I was wondering about a trip to upper paradise lake in the seward ranger district chugach national forest, and wondering if I could legally land in that area. So I called the rangers and they directed me to the LE guys. After a brief conversation, I was set.
They said it was fine to fly and land anywhere in the foreat. Don't haze critters of other users of the lands, and fly safe! They even spoke of some old abandoned strips that I could look for. I asked about clearing the strips for safety's sake, and they said "Do what you need too in order to be safe in your plane, not a 747!" Understood! Now I've opened a dialogue with the LE guys, and have them on OUR side. So now I'm out enjoying and exploring the public lands like they should be. Id rather be out there then in here typing this any day of the year. That's my 2 cents on the subject.....
Its not always better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission. ;)

Log.


Indeed, and Kevin could save himself a lot of time if he did the same.

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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

aktahoe1 wrote:That's my point Mike...Boundary waters are "wilderness" and you can look it up to find the answer. Simple. As the poster above lists all "parks", "preserves", National refuges" Wilderness areas" that is a no no without question.

As you say Mike there is no specific guidance, it states in plain English that over snow vehicles, aircraft, etc., are exempt.

I have landed more times than I can count here in Kalifornia, Nevada and Alaska (Ak being the red headed step child that gets away with everything) only to have Ronnie Ranger drive up and ask if we are alright, then proceed to ask what we do with the big tires then add "you guys have a good day".

It's legal but as you say check with your local district. If I do get a ticket I will be contesting the $250 landing fee and showing them the posted national regs for public lands. As you say, there is no specific guidance in the FS. You can't find it anywhere.


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I'm not talking about wilderness. Of course mechanical stuff is prohibited in wilderness. I'm talking about the specific AIRSPACE OVER the Boundary Waters. Any other forests have prohibited airspace overhead? Is airspace mentioned anywhere in the national regs? No, but there it is, specific to one Forest.

The point is, EVERY forest has regulations specific to THAT forest. The only way you're going to find out whether you can legally land an airplane in a particular forest is to call THAT forest and ask.

And, I'd bet that you're going to have to search far and wide (except in Alaska) for one that permits aircraft landings. But maybe.

The only reason Alaska is the exception is that the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act, which created all the federal parks, wildlife refuges and forests in Alaska specifically stated that aircraft landings would be permitted, except in certain situations.

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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

That over the snow thing.... I like that. So instead of telling that ranget I'd never do it again ( land at the West Yellowstone old airport site) ON WHEELS, I'm good to go on skis? I'm not asking anyone, don't bother quoting regs or telling me to contact some guv agency, that just isn't going to happen, but I like the wiggle room there for a ski plane. Outside the Park BTW.
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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

I am with Kevin on this one!

Just a little teaser on something I need to write up here on a upcoming thread.

Just finally received my letter in the mail that the USFS was un able to get me on my violation for landing and camping at Vines last summer.
Thank you Idaho RAF and the others who went to bat for me!

It is not over (the fight on the Big 4) according to the letter I received a week later warning that this is not open to the public from Officer Amy Ohme.

Do not pay a fine when you get a violation in the mail for landing at one of the Big 4. We have the written law on our side and anyone that pays the $530.00 dollars is paying for something the USFS has no legal right to charge. Contact the Idaho RAF, there are Attorneys that will go to bat for our right to land at the Big 4 and camp!
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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

Mauleguy wrote:I am with Kevin on this one!

Just a little teaser on something I need to write up here on a upcoming thread.

Just finally received my letter in the mail that the USFS was un able to get me on my violation for landing and camping at Vines last summer.
Thank you Idaho RAF and the others who went to bat for me!

It is not over (the fight on the Big 4) according to the letter I received a week later warning that this is not open to the public from Officer Amy Ohme.

Do not pay a fine when you get a violation in the mail for landing at one of the Big 4. We have the written law on our side and anyone that pays the $530.00 dollars is paying for something the USFS has no legal right to charge. Contact the Idaho RAF, there are Attorneys that will go to bat for our right to land at the Big 4 and camp!


Greg,

This is a totally different deal than landing off airport. As you know, there is a long history and legislation involved with the Big Creek Four AIRPORTS.

Good for you for standing firm on this deal, but again, it's a different situation.

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Re: Landing on Federal, Tribal, or State lands in the US

I spoke to the West Yellowstone Airport Manager this spring about landing there in winter.....on skis or wheels. He said the airport is notamed closed in winter....NO aircraft landings there. I asked why. His response was that the State (which owns and operates the airport) has an exclusive lease for use of the airport by an automotive company, which does cold weather testing there in winter.

As I noted to Kevin, these things aren't always as simple as they appear.

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