I recently arrived from Alaska with 31" Bushwheels on my cub. In Canada all the airports along my route have grass landing options that are commonly used. On short final into Bellingham, I requested permission to touch down on a "patch of grass". Since the airport has had recent work, re-grading, and hydroseeding it was "not advisable" and "at the pilot's discretion" (I think a controller would always indicate "at the pilot's discretion"). I landed on a short, recently seeded spot (unofficially recommended by the helpful controller) between RW 16 and parallel Alpha Taxiway, between Delta and Echo taxiways. There were signs and lights to avoid but they were confined to the perimeter, as is often the case, so be careful turning onto a runway or a taxiway.

Anyone have experiences requesting a non-standard landing on the grass or gravel at tower controlled fields?

Can anyone offer information about airports in Washington's Puget Sound area with paved runways with landable grassy areas that are typically or seldom if ever used but are the preferred spot (tower controlled or not). Please share your local knowledge for future reference and also to help make this safer when going into an unfamiliar field. Provide enough detail (using taxiway names and runway numbers) to identify the spot using Google Earth, or airport diagrams.

Thanks

if you ask first, it is always NO around here. I avoid those places. I always land along side the runways in the grass at non-towered airports without asking. I have been scolded only a few times. One place I will never go back to is Porter County in Indiana, SE of Chicago. There, I was "BITCHED" at big time by some A.H. woman behind the counter. We used to stop there on the way to and from Oshkosh with about six airplanes for gas. Never again!

If you land in the dirt here at Nampa you will get your tires full of goatheads.

The controllers at KPIH (Pocatello) were shocked at the idea, and denied permission. That is the only controlled place I've been/asked since installing my Aistreaks. Uncontrolled I just do it, and have gotten nicely bitched at once, threatened with Homeland Security action once (cut the corner of a secure passenger loading zone), gotten a few funny looks (like it was accidential), and no problem the other 95% of the time. I would expect almost no controlled strips here will allow it, due to never being asked, it catches them by surprise, and they go to the fall back answer, NO.

In Salem (KSLE a towered airport) I ask to land in the grass to the left of runway 34. The tower will not clear me to land but instead tells me that I can do so at my own risk. I thought that everything we do in an airplane we do at our own risk. However they don't say that it is prohibited so I go ahead and land. Then I get clearance to taxi, all is good. No problems here....


...GuyWagon

Vmc wrote:...Can anyone offer information about airports in Washington's Puget Sound area with paved runways with landable grassy areas that are typically or seldom if ever used but are the preferred spot (tower controlled or not). ....

Harvey Field in Snohomish has official grass strip, west side of pavement. Closed in winter to prevent damage.
Concrete has good grass at both ends, north of paved runway.
Arlington has 2 official grass ruways- 34 grass immediately east of paved runway, & 29 grass immediately north of paved runway between D2 & D3.
Jefferson County (Pt Townsend) my home field has unoffical grass south of the runway, both ends. Don't ask, don't tell. Don't land north of runway as the ground there can be very soggy & soft.
Whidbey Airpark (Langley) has good grass west of the runway.
Port Angeles has a 900' ultralight strip, south of the parallel taxiway at the extreme west end of the airport.
Sequim Valley has an official grass strip, north side of runway, east end.
Elma has good grass, 900' long, north of runway, east end.
Spanaway & Shady Acres both have good grass, east of runway, south end.
Thun Field (Pierce County/Puyallup) has grass at south end, don't recall which side of runway.
Chehalis has lots of grass not sure where the locals land on it (if they do).
My experience with most authority figures (controller, airport mgr, etc) is that if you ask for something unusual, they'll say no. Better to apologize later. But if you bust your ass, don't gripe about it. Sometimes that inviting patch of grass is just not suitable for landing. "I it looks rough, it is. If it looks smooth, maybe it is" is a pearl of wisdom.

I heard and seen Cub/Scout drivers with AKBW land on the grass/dirt on the north side of the runway (12-30). No problems there, I think. But like Taildrgfun said, you'll more than likely get goatheads on your tires

It has nothing to do with the FAA and everything to do with who ever owns the airport. ATC couldn't care less, they have to follow what ever limitations the airport owner has placed on them. Helena and Bozeman have grass runways.

Whats a goathead?

lancef53 wrote:Whats a goathead?

We call them puncture vines..goatheads....play hell on bicycle tires, wheelbarrow tires, thin airplane tires..etc.....and feet when you drag them into the house all winter long!

I just land about 15 or 20ft short of the runway to get the bushwheels turning, tower guys seem to get less upset about that then landing beside the runway. Ft St john BC is the only place Ive really had complain much.

lancef53 wrote:Whats a goathead?

These little bastards, when separated from the vine and dried out, are a bicycle tire's worst enemy:

They are also cleverly designed so that no matter how they are dropped, they will always have one thorn pointed up while resting on the other thorn and a ridge on the seed case. The seeds can stay dormant in the soil for something like 7 years. Nasty things.

Thanks for the great info.

I grew up in Idaho and the DREADED GOATHEADS made for a painful childhood. They are hell in your foot or the hand, when you brace yourself in a fall. They will easily puncture bike tires. Not sure what they'd do to a BW. So far the worst thing I've discovered are sharp rocks. I'm now careful about that.

Today I landed at Orcas Island in the grass parallel 34. I think the best places are the first stretches of grass to the right of both 34 and 16.

Also today at Friday Harbor I landed on the grass north of and aligned with 16. When you roll onto the paved runway you should be moving slow if the tail is down or keep the tail up for the transition because there is an abrupt paved edge.

Skagit Regional has expanses of smooth grass areas. No one on the ground seemed to notice where I was landing but a curious inbound twin pilot questioned, "did you say you were landing in the grass?". It occurred to me that that twin driver would have plenty to do while preparing to land such a complex machine, managing the engines, bringing back the speed, referencing the myriad of instruments, and still remembering to lower the gear and make appropriate radio calls. All this experience and he is confused about a taildragger wanting to land on the grass?

I agree with Bonanza Man - ATC vs airport manager. I don't think it would pay off to approach the mgr with questions about this. So far my two KBLI landings on the grass were permitted. But today a different controller had me repeat my request twice then ask me describe exactly where I wanted to land. Finally he said "at your own risk". Fine! I hope they get used to it eventually.

Two weeks ago I landed the grass at Fort St John. The CYXJ Radio guys were helpful. I landed parallel to RW11 on the left side. Apparently the most common place is parallel to the taxiway/ramp. I arrived late in the evening. Werner, the owner of Esso fuel was there on a call-out. He invited me to stay with him and his wife Ester. I enjoyed a fine meal, good company, a hot shower and breakfast. Werner and Ester are gracious folks. Werner is a high time bush pilot. Two years ago he lost an engine in a twin on takeoff and went through some trees and made a hard landing in a river. Everyone survived, quite a story.

What Bonanzaman says MAY be sorta true where he works, but its not in many other places.

Anyone attend Oshkosh this summer? The manager of the airport notam'd it closed, and the air traffic controllers continued clearing pilots to land, even on a CLOSED airfield. They then left it up to the airport volunteers to figure out what to do with them, and in many cases, they turned them around and told them to leave.

So, if ATC just does what airport management wants them to do, how come in Santa Monica, if you're flying a jet (which the city and airport management prohibit) or if you're leaving after the curfew (ditto) ATC will simply inform you of the curfew and clear you for takeoff??? That sort of thing has been going on for decades at SMO. I've talked to controllers there, and they simply say that they manage air traffic, not political issues.

So, I wouldn't bet on ATC "just doing what the airport manager wants them to do".

MTV

Vmc,
I have never been denied the opportunity to land in the grass at BLI, and I suspect that as an earlier poster said it is because the tower has good guys.
Are you around for a while? Maybe we could get together and do some bar hopping. Im on Lopez Island and have a cub on 31's.................

Redbaron180 - I should be in Bellingham until May or June, when I return to Talkeetna. I'd like to get together. I'll PM you some details.

I asked the Salt Lake County airport manager (who controls Salt Lake International, South Valley Regional aka Airport #2, and Tooele Valley airports) about getting permission to land in the grass. This is the response I recieved:

I have copied the following paragraph out of Title 16, the SLC Statute for aviation.

LANDING RULES
16.36.010 Standards-FAR Rules Applicable:
All persons piloting or flying aircraft shall be governed by the standard FAR-91 rules for landing in addition to the following provisions set out in this chapter. (Prior code § 2-8-1)

16.36.020 Use Of Runways Required:
Landings and takeoffs will be confined to paved runways. (Ord. 77-04 § 35, 2004: prior code § 2-8-7)

For fixed wing aircraft, by law we are limited to landings to paved runways only. It is a long and arduous process to change the statute. So, unable to approve your request at our airports.

So if anyone in the area is bored and has a lot of free time, please feel free to petition the county to change the statute.

lancef53 wrote:Whats a goathead?

It is also a term of endearment for a fellow BCP member.

mtv wrote:........ in Santa Monica, if you're flying a jet (which the city and airport management prohibit)

Wow, I did not know that. The city of Santa Monica not only dislikes any turbine aircraft, I believe the city doesn't like any aircraft. Probably why the museum moved away from Santa Monica??

Here's a link for some info: http://www.nbaa.org/ops/airports/smo/

Looks like the city of Santa Monica may be looking to close down the airport after 2015??