Backcountry Pilot

[lownslow79 offline]

I thought that since saving weight is very important to both backcountry pilots and backcountry hikers that I would see a lot of use of the current products available for hikers.
I extreme lightweight hikers often have a a packweight of less than 35lbs. This includes usually a shelter/tent, food, water purification system, sleeping bag, clothes and other esentials.

I dont have any practical backcountry expereince, but would imagine that some of the newer tech advanced materials and constructions offer a significant weight savings, compared to old army surplus or other bulky heavy equipment.

Here is my 35lb pack that I would have with me in my plane: MSR Whisperlite multi-fuel stove, MSR sweetwater mirco water filtration pump,Nageline bottle's,Gregory pack, western mountainering 3-season down sleeping bag, a lightweight breathable fabric rain jacket, a two person, three season backpacking tent or bi-vy hammock. utensils, matches, etc

You get the idea. everyone has brand preference. What besides, maybe a mosquito net and some type of bear repellant/large caliber handgun would be practical for the airplane pack?

[mtv offline]

LOTS of stuff. As George Carlin once said, you just gotta have your stuff....

Camp chairs for one thing. Not always a comfy place to sit, and sitting on tires gets old after a bit.

There are all sorts of ideas on firearms for bear protection around this site. My preference is a Remington Model 870 12 gauge shotgun with a slug barrel and slugs. Not as compact or as easily carried as a handgun, but frankly, there isn't a handgun out there that can CONSISTENTLY deliver enough energy to ACCURATELY dispatch a bear at any distance. Now, there are times and places where carrying a shotgun is inconvenient, and perhaps there a handgun is better than nothing. But, if you're going to carry ANY kind of gun for bear protection, learn to shoot it, and shoot it well.

I realize that you are discussing camp gear, but you also should have some sort of decent first aid kit in your plane all the time. Basics here-doesn't need to be an ER, but should have stuff to fix the little owees, as well as stopping a major bleed, etc, as necessary.

Bug dope. Don't leave home without it. I don't care HOW much netting you carry.

A good knife. Think Crocodile Dundee.....Well, actually, that knife of his wasn't all that great a wilderness knife. But, no Swiss Army knives, please.

Speaking of which, one of the really good quality multi tools, made by Leatherman, Gerber, etc.

I wouldn't roam much without at least a basic tool kit for the airplane as well. A small socket set, an open end wrench set, couple of screwdrivers, some safety wire, PK screws, etc.

I carry a spare tailwheel tire tube. Usually, you can salvage the tire, not always, but.....

A book or two. First time you're weathered in for four days in the boonies won't seem as long if you've got some good reading material. When it comes to weather in the mountains, patience is a virtue and not being bored really helps.

I know, I blew past 35 pounds a long time ago. I'm into comfort, actually.

Nevertheless, we're talking airplane camping, not backpacking in the Hindu Kush.

MTV

[CarlTexas offline]

ya its always good to have a gun on board but it is proven that bear mace is much more effective at stopping bears. not only that but it takes less time and just needs to be pointed, instead of aimed, so by means of bear protection id go with mace but every time a gun is a better survival tool.

flashlights, freeze dried food, fishing takle and pole, and most important the knowledge of wat to do in a certain situtaion

[WrenPilot offline]

Here is my 35lb pack that I would have with me in my plane: MSR Whisperlite multi-fuel stove, MSR sweetwater mirco water filtration pump,Nageline bottle's,Gregory pack, western mountainering 3-season down sleeping bag, a lightweight breathable fabric rain jacket, a two person, three season backpacking tent or bi-vy hammock. utensils, matches, etc What besides, maybe a mosquito net and some type of bear repellant/large caliber handgun would be practical for the airplane pack?

MTV is correct, LOT's of stuff. There are minimum requirements for flying in Canada and Alaska (see http://www.equipped.com/ak_cnda.htm
for a list.

I think at a minimum you need to add first aid gear & some kind of signalling equipment. Bug juice is a must as MTV says (fly in the Yukon or Alaska in June and July and you'll become a believer in a hurry), although those who have taken survival classes know there are other ways to beat the bugs (albeit somewhat unsavory )

The Canadians do not allow handguns in any shape or form and realistically bears aren't much of a threat unless you are really out in the sticks. If you are headed for bear country take a rifle. If you plan to fly in Alaska, you are (or at least were) required to carry a rifle..it needs to be 30 cal or bigger and have at least a 30" barrel if I recall.

I carry an Armalite 22 cal/semi automatic survival rifle. It's compact, floats, and is pretty much idiot proof. It is effective for "meal size" critters. When venturing North I carry a real gun (300 H&H magnum) but I see no need in the lower 48 for such firepower.

I'd also pack an axe or hatchet, whittling wood with a multi-tool can be a time consuming process

Be forewarned; Survival kit/camping gear recommendation discussions are akin to talking religion and politics. Have fun sorting out the wheat from the chaff.. There are a myriad of online sites offering advice which may help you.

One last thought; Lighter is better and there is no substitute for quality. Cheap stuff is not what you want to bet your life on.

[lownslow79 offline]

definitly, much like talking about religion!
cheap to me, equals heavy. Some things can be a savvy purchase i am sure, my aim was to gauge the type of gear a backcountry pilot usually carries.
I guess if your using a high performance aircraft with high useful load and half loaded then weight is less of a concern.
I am thinking of a super cub, pacer, C170 or whatever, that dosent have the space or added HP to spare in the mountains on a hot day.

Firearms are another religion type conversation, Believe it or not here where i fly in SC, our group of pilots fly cessna 180's, top cubs, cubs, champs, etc, when the weather is bad, we often go to the range and shoot for fun if everyone can aquire a kitchen pass!

I am very much looking forward to coming out west, so much to learn and so much to soak in. In the upstate of SC I have hiked a solo backcountry trail 70 miles through dense foothills. I love exploring and the feeling of being simple and connecting with the raw human expereince.

I like Kershaw knives by the way. I would take the kel-tec folding .223 rifle with a 3x optical illuminated scope. Very lightweight, proven and rugged.

[Kenny Chapman offline]

Consider investing in a MicroFix PLB too, in case thing go really pear-shaped.

[Coyote Ugly offline]

And don't forget yer hatchet, stakes and rope. The matches, lighter, compass and leatherman always in yer pants pocket....

[GumpAir offline]

When ya'll got it all figured out, go fly out to some dirt strip somewhere, park your airplane, then LIVE off your survival gear for three or four days. Just sit there and live off strictly the survival gear.

It's a real eye opener, and you'll learn quick what you need and what you don't. No cheating, as that just defeats the purpose of the experiment.

And like Mike says, bring a couple books. Boredom is probably the most uncomfortable part of the whole deal.

Gump

[Green Hornet offline]

If you are talking survival you should put your efforts on a vest and separate survival gear from camping gear. More than one pilot was lucky to get out of the airplane before it burned or got swept away by rapids.
The standard adage is anything not on you is camping gear. You would be amazed how much you can fit in a vest.

The thread below is good to read.

phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=253&postdays=0&postorde

A spot is and or a 406mhz is a good recommendation.
Strobe light

[denalipilot offline]

Not previously mentioned:

Foam/ ensolite-type pads. For splints, sleeping, thermal insulation from ground, electrical insulation in lightening. I keep a couple all the time in my extended baggage.

Here's a real skookum saw, that comes with a crosscut blade and a metal blade: http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0006390514310a.shtml

In cold climates, a northern companion engine preheater, which includes a complete MSR XGK stove plus cook pot: http://www.tacaviation.com/models.htm

This freeze-dried food comes vacuum packed, unlike most freeze-dried packets with lots of air space. Good if you are joecub hanging out in the flight levels http://www.treknologies.com/archives/20 ... untain.php

Laser signaling device: https://www.greatlandlaser.com/index.php

This doesn't exactly address the original question, which was about keeping it light and not being brand-specific, but still it doesn't add up to too much weight, and in a few cases, I'm unaware of any alternate brands even existing for some of these items. Hope this is useful to somebody.

-DP

[kevbert offline]

If you plan to fly in Alaska, you are (or at least were) required to carry a rifle..it needs to be 30 cal or bigger and have at least a 30" barrel if I recall.

30 inches, now that's a hell of a barrel!

Actually, among other things, the 1949 statute required "one pistol, revolver, shotgun, or rifle, and ammunition for same", but that firearm requirement was repealed Sept. 27, 2001.

Apparently, that was when the bears decided not to be dangerous any more.

[mtv offline]

Also, I specifically stuck to items of "Camping Gear" as opposed to "Survival Gear".

Any of that stuff I listed falls into the category of camping gear, and, if flying in the backcountry, one should always have a good survival pack as well.

As in the case of the knife, and perhaps the first aid kit, the same equipment may serve both purposes....but not always.

Anyway, when it comes to SURVIVAL gear, well, that's a whole different and extensive list.

Nevertheless, this is always good stuff to think about at this time of year.....-30 here this AM.

MTV

[Skystrider offline]

One item not really addressed is a tent. I camp a fair bit. Maybe 20 - 25 days a year. A good quality tent (Sierra, North Face, Marmot, etc.) can't be beat. But even the lightest ones are 6 plus pounds and take up space. So when light weight and space are at a premium I prefer my Jungle Hammock.

http://www.junglehammock.com/

It is only 2 lbs 15 oz and takes up less space than a small rain gear bag. It is expandable so you can actually lay on your side with your knees bent comfortably. It has six outside pockets for storing lots of stuff off the ground. There is a generous rain fly, bug netting, and drip stops on the ropes. Unlike most hammocks, you can sit upright in it.

Hammocks allow you to camp over rough or uneven terrain. They also eliminate the need for a ground pad which further reduces weight and saves space. And when you wake up in the wet, damp morning, it is easy to stuff the hammock in the bag without getting it dirty or wet because it is not touching the ground. There is even a two person version.

I have had mine for about 10 years and it still looks new. I have camped in it for up to two weeks at a time with no problem. Even in the dead of winter. Boy, not having to pack a wet, snowy tent up for the day's hike is a real blessing!

As you can guess, I am a bit sold on this particular piece of gear.

[kevbert offline]

I dont have any practical backcountry expereince, but would imagine that some of the newer tech advanced materials and constructions offer a significant weight savings, compared to old army surplus or other bulky heavy equipment.

I think lownslow79 has an interesting idea here. Most, if not all of us, are aware of fire, walking upright, polar fleece, gore-tex, etc. But what is new in the last five years that has not yet become ubiquitous?

I'll point out the new Luxeon LED flashlights, which are up to 4 and 5 watts and are brighter than my 5 cell maglite. I saw my first one a month ago. Anything else?

[whee offline]

This is something I have thought a lot about also. Because I fly a small plane with very little baggage space and useful load I really have to watch what I take. I just pack like I am going backpacking and then load the packs in the plane and go. Depending on the trip I might make room for the chairs.

[lownslow79 offline]

I guess the overall feeling i am getting is that if it is coinsidered camping or survival gear, not to many people are concerned about weight as an issue.

I just thought that the mindset of the backcountry pilot would be similar to the ultrlalight backpackers. I am all about luxery when possible, so if you can bring it why not i guess.

I am also a fan of these new lightweight backpacking products that have so much utility and sense bult into them.
take along a 3lb 20 ,degree rated down bag that stuffs into a quart sized container, V.S a standard heavy, polyester fill bag from coleman
How about a MSR stove and lightweight cooking set, V.S a coleman camp stove and heavy cast iron set

I do like the camping hammock. I have one myself that I use for overnight trips to the beach. It is very useful, but nothing like my roomy Sierrra Designs 2 person dome that has a vestibule, room for cooking if need be and to put your bag out of the rain. Its pack weight is only slightly over 4.5 lbs.

[whee offline]

This is a pic from my first camping trip with my plane...there is nothing light about what I took.


Since then I have bought a Optimus Nova multi-fuel stove and a few other things. I take my North Face 2-person (my wife always comes) backpacking tent, our 20 deg bags that weight ~2.5 lbs each, MRS filter (water weighs too much), and a light weight cooking set. I am very concerned about weight because even with lightweight stuff I am nearly at gross when I leave home and with only 85hp things could get exciting. I don't even take my flightbag anymore.

Now if a few a Maule, 180, then I would not be all that concerned.

[lownslow79 offline]

I love the Luscombe! So, see here is an example of what I am advocating!
So your 2 person 85HP Luscombe is a very good example of what I invision for myself. This is what I thought It might be like for myself. I dont have the budget for a high HP bird, so I am thinking a Cessna 140, Taildragger Cessna 150, or a stinson 108 at the most for me.


Thanks for posting the picture, its awesome! There are so many awesome pictures on this site.
What kind of altitude are you limited to flying into/out in the backcountry? Obviously at altitude your not producing full rated HP.
I know from expereince, I took a cessna 150 up to about 9,500' on a hot summer day. just because I was bored and had to break in a new cylinder.
It took a good 1.5 hours to get up there, only because there was a slight wind at altitude I was turning into. It stops wanting to climb much, after 6k ft or so.

[Oregon180 offline]

I'm definitely into keeping things light both when backpacking and flying.

I also like to keep things simple. The beauty of a lot of the modern gear is that it allows you to carry a lot less weight and achieve more with less stuff. The whole point for me when camping is to get away from "stuff" but that's different for everyone. Once you go light on a backpacking trip, it's really a revelation.

As for true emergency/survival scenarios, a PLB can't be beat. It's fun to think about Survivor Man scenarios, but really when the stuff hits the fan you just want to get out of there. Of course even with a PLB you still need to be prepared to hang out for at least 24-48 hours even in the lower 48.
I always carry a PLB on my person whether backpacking or flying, as well as a compact strobe light. I also carry one of Doug Ritter's pocket survival packs in my pocket along with one of his folding knives and a heet sheet blanket. Those few things, along with wearing the right clothes for the conditions should be enough to keep me alive, albeit not necessarily comfortably. Of course if I'm backpacking, I also have a tent, sleeping bag, water filter, etc and will be living high on the hog. If flying and the plane doesn't' go up in flames or sink, I'll have those things in the plane too.

For light-weight camping gear, the motorcycle "adventure riders" are also a great resource. Some of those guys circle the globe with only the stuff they can carry on their bikes. Check out http://www.advrider.com and http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ for some good ideas.

[mtv offline]

I don't disagree at all that camping gear, just as backpacking gear, has gotten BETTER, and in many cases, lighter as well in the last twenty years.

I have a couple of tents. I have a Kelty mountaineering dome tent--20 years old, patched, and still the best thing you can get in a big blow or ugly weather. I also have a bigger REI tent, that I can stand up in, put my camp chair in, sit and read, etc. It too is very storm proof.

I use mostly lightweight camp gear as well. All that just makes sense, no matter what airplane you fly.

I've got a back that's more bitchy than I am (I know, hard to believe), and several years ago, I discovered some of the new THICK air mattresses. DAMN!!! Comfort in camping--yeee--haw!!

I've camped in some really desolate places, in some tough conditions. I've slept on the ground, in a blown down tent in 60 knot winds, with blowing mixed snow and rain, and ate cold reconstituted freeze dried food, cause the stove wouldn't work.....I do NOT do that kind of stuff voluntarily or for fun any more, thank you.

So, I take those things I consider to be necessary for comfort. The big air mattress weighs 6 or 8 pounds. Doesn't matter, cause THAT sucker is going along.

For me, this stuff is recreation now. I used to camp cause that was part of my job. No more. So I take the stuff I need to stay comfortable and happy.

BY the way, don't forget some means to secure your airplane. Not every remote strip has tiedowns. Consider either FlyTies or The Claw, and don't leave home without one or the other....http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ps/ ... plies.html

MTV