by patrol guy » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:09 pm

I haven't done this, but I like the idea. Depends on the places you camp, but three good size (well made) nylon bags with good grommet holes, or straps. After you arrive, fill the bags with local rocks, gravel, or sand.

Hope you have some pretty big bags and a strong back......Finding and loading a half ton of rocks into 3 bags to provide equal anchorage doesn't sound like my idea of fun. I'll stick with the Claw..........Even in the super soft soil on a straight pull they were getting 300# test per anchor - With a 45 degree pull I'd think they'd would have hit 500# without breaking a sweat.

If it weren't for the BF sledge I'd need to carry, I would seriously consider carrying broken T post sections, maybe even drill them for a carabiner or other rope attach hardware. Make them disposable. I've got some stuck in the ground around my place that no tractor smaller than a backhoe can pull vertically, and they are only in about 18".

...another thing that helps more then you think, when in sandy areas (beaches), is to kick out holes for your main wheels to sink into and fill back around tires. Part of that is that your plane is more of a flat angle to the wind, and less lift.

This, coupled with a slightly nose down elevator, is probably the biggest factor in keeping your plane upright and not jerking any anchorage system out. Just make sure the tail is tied down hard too.

Flynengr

If wieght wasn't much of an issue (which it is with a lot of us), I would use circus tent stakes. They are made of steel, about 2-3 feet long, about 3/4 to 1 inch thick and you need a sledge hammer to bound them in the ground. And if the ground is hard, you'll need a pipe wrench to twist them out of the ground.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
http://www.gettent.com/shop2/celina/24-x-1-steel-tent-stake-double-head-327.htm

Here's more:
http://www.gettent.com/shop2/celina/stakes-and-anchors--27-1.htm

If it starts blowing too hard, you can always tuck the wings on that Avid

Gump is absolutely correct on that one. If you could put those bags of rocks inside your airplane and it would fly, what makes you think tying them on the outside is going to help much?

As has been said, there's nothing that's going to guarantee that a plane won't blow away.

I lived in Cold Bay for three years, and Kodiak for eight. Those are windy places. All that time, I tended airplanes tied outdoors. The single biggest benefit to ANY tiedown setup is what CU showed in one of his pictures: The Pilot, tending lines, and keeping things secure.

If you can get behind a building, or ??? that'll help. Get someone to park a van or pickup in front of your plane, and that'll help. In CDB, during big blows, all the trucks and vans in town used to become wind blocks for airplanes. And, the wind does blow there. I don't recall any planes damaged while I was there, because people stayed with the planes--all night if necessary.

The only planes I saw damaged badly at Kodiak were owned by people who didn't tend them when the wind blew. Same's true other places. I once saw a practically new Cessna 185 on floats utterly destroyed, while tied to very solid tiedowns, because nobody was there to tend it. I was busier than a one armed paper hangar at the time, tending three airplanes-work plane, personal plane and a friend's, who was out of town.

MTV

I agree with the bags of rocks, on their own, not doing much.

But if you were in sandy soil and you could find the rocks then burying the sacks (or anything else with surface area) about 2' deep and then dumping a few gallons of water (if available) on the sand after you fill the holes would work better than the fly ties or auger type tie downs.

Hard ground, I would trust the Claw or fly ties better.

Another thing is if you have lightweight 1/8" rope, how many pounds will it hold????

Spoilers on the wings would also help in a strong wind.

Has anyone used the tiedowns that are a wide nylon ribbon with hooks on either end, and a lock for the ribbon? Are they better than rope?

http://www.aircraft-tiedowns.com

ASW.

Oregon180 wrote:I wouldn't draw too many conclusions based on the results of the AvWeb test. As others have mentioned, the load shouldn't be straight up from the anchor. I would guess that the greater the angle of the load vector, the better the multi-stake systems (claw, fly-ties) would fair.

Just as a data point, I used the Fly Ties (original version) as a permanent tie down setup for my old Citabria for two years. We had some pretty good wind storms during that time, and I never had any issues with the tie downs. Happy to be in a hangar now though!

That is good to hear, about the flyties.

SE6601KF wrote:Spoilers on the wings would also help in a strong wind.

Spoilers will help to a point in light to moderate winds. With strong winds you'd better be standing there watching every second. And if'n it was me, any wing covers or spoilers (and engine cover) would be off the airplane and stuffed inside. Another thing to consider is your doors. If you can (with a Cessna) lock them from the inside and crawl out the cargo door. It's ugly if they come loose.

Not word of mouth, not my buddy heard from a friend of a friend, but I personally have seen wing covers break loose in strong winds and start sawing on the wing. It cuts through that aluminum like a hot knife thru butter, and will be back to the spar in a matter of minutes.

In big wind events, just like the being stuck out on super cold days, if you want your airplane to be in one piece and usable to work or play, you have to sit there with it and be prepared to deal with whatever happens. Untended airplanes get broke.

Gump

1SeventyZ wrote:If it starts blowing too hard, you can always tuck the wings on that Avid

That's what I plan to do if ever caught out in a high wind. Raising the tail up would be the best...I think. The wings have a high angle of attack lengthwise when folded with the tail on the ground. Then tie all three wheels down.

Wings folded, Tail up

ASW wrote:Has anyone used the tiedowns that are a wide nylon ribbon with hooks on either end, and a lock for the ribbon? Are they better than rope?

http://www.aircraft-tiedowns.com

ASW.

The weak point with the ratchet straps is the hooks. They'll straighten right out if their weight limit is exceeded. I use the straps, but tie in a heavy carabiner at the ends.

Gump

of course you could always put the aircraft in the possision that they always tend to end up in. Have a few friends help you lift the tail and ease her over on her back. than tie it down.

Another thing to consider is your doors. If you can (with a Cessna) lock them from the inside and crawl out the cargo door. It's ugly if they come loose.

Gump is right!!!!!!

Things can get ugly with doors.
I got a charter one time from Kayenta to Vegas because a friend working for another company had a passenger lift the door handle on the 210 he was driving while taxiing to parking @ Kayenta (appx 30 kt winds at the time). The door ripped right off the plane and skidded across the ramp. Luckily it didn't go through the prop.

Well if your really in some stuff, bring two tow straps (from a autostore)



and a folding shovel.



Go find a small log, road sign, or whatever and make a deadman anchor.



All in for about 30 bucks

Your wings will come off before it gives way.

And, whoever runs the place where you used those tiedowns will sincerely request that you NEVER, EVER return....

I don't think I'd try that at OSH, for example..

MTV

NineThreeKilo wrote:Well if your really in some stuff, bring two tow straps (from a autostore)



and a folding shovel.



Go find a small log, road sign, or whatever and make a deadman anchor.



All in for about 30 bucks

Your wings will come off before it gives way.

I appreciate the replies but this post has gone WAY offtopic. Let me reiterate... If all you had was your 3rd graders backpack to build a kit that held EVERYTHING (tools, oil, tie downs, chocks, ect ect) you needed for a week long trip for your plane what would you bring. I don't have the room for tie downs, ratchet straps, shovels, axes, ect ect. My airplane makes a Luscombe, 140, or similiar look huge.

AvidFlyer wrote:I appreciate the replies but this post has gone WAY offtopic. Let me reiterate... If all you had was your 3rd graders backpack to build a kit that held EVERYTHING (tools, oil, tie downs, chocks, ect ect) you needed for a week long trip for your plane what would you bring. I don't have the room for tie downs, ratchet straps, shovels, axes, ect ect. My airplane makes a Luscombe, 140, or similiar look huge.

Packing that light is above my pay grade. It takes a 206 load of crap for me and 2 others to go for a couple of days. I'd need an Otter to go for a week. Of course, I come by it honest. My mother once packed a chest of drawers on a 5 day excursion to Lake Powell.

gb

I still stand by my previous suggestion. It won't do everything, but it is light, ('bout 3 pounds) and cheap, (very inportant to me as well) and effective. (We weathered all of the blows at Oshkosh in 08 and 09, in which a stearman was flipped, with no movement at all and at remote strips and overburdened strips, we had tiedowns that I felt OK with) The diagrams also specify to tie down so the pull is at an angle, well outside the footprint of the tiedowns vertical shadow. I respectfully resubmit:

http://www.vintageaircraft.org/magazine ... iedown.pdf


KB

AvidFlyer, I have used The Claw for years on both my Luscomber 8A and now on my Maule. The Claw weighs 8 pounds and I know you feel that the weight is an issue. Here is how I addressed it. I removed the metal hammer and replaced it with a plastic one. I then substituted the metal stakes with some very light aluminum ones. This reduced the weight to less that the three pounds. When I can take the eight pounds I just swap the heavy materials back into the bag.

I have found that for me, The Claw to be the best solution for a wide range of conditions. It has never failed me.

Coyote Ugly wrote:Flat strap nylon from the army surplus store, rolls up really small. The Stakes or rods are the heavy and bulky part, and ya gotta carry a hatchet to drive em in with. I've found wood stakes and drove em in with rocks before, but do they hold in a big blow?? Who knows, probably as good as a twist in... My son has some high dollar titanium stakes he scared up someplace, that are really cool, and light, and a hatchet ain't a bad idea anyway..

When we came up to Austin last summer I brought my travel tiedowns -about 30 bucks or less .
Go to home Lowes and look for some concrete stakes about 18" x 1.5" x 1/4 or 3/8"(about 2 bucks a piece) thick. Drill a 1/2 inch hole in end (say 2 inches in) - Get some of those screw together link loops (another 2 bucks a piece) -and 1/2 " rope . Needs 5 pound sledge to
drive in .

AvidFlyer wrote:I appreciate the replies but this post has gone WAY offtopic. Let me reiterate... If all you had was your 3rd graders backpack to build a kit that held EVERYTHING (tools, oil, tie downs, chocks, ect ect) you needed for a week long trip for your plane what would you bring. I don't have the room for tie downs, ratchet straps, shovels, axes, ect ect. My airplane makes a Luscombe, 140, or similiar look huge.

I was half making a joke!

I bring a my 3strand tie down lines and if I'm going to be in the grass, dirt, etc i bring a pair of screw in dog pikes (which you can weld the eyes closed on). Now if your getting some wind that is could flip your plane; unless your manning it, or dug in with a deadman anchor, chances are your SOL anyway.