I'm looking for a Pacer for my next airplane, I think -- sort of a poor man's Maule. Looking for a good,straight airframe with a 320 (or maybe 360) Lycoming engine, good fabric,basic VFR panel (IFR equipment NOT required), lean & light for good performance. Fat tires,VG's,a skylight, and a patrol door would be pluses. Hoping to find something fairly close to the Puget Sound area or at least in the northwest.
Before anyone (like you, Kurt! ) tells me to just get a Maule, there's two reasons why I don't-- high purchase price and high operating costs. I think a light Pacer can do most of what I want to do for a lot less dough.
Thanks,

Eric Taylor
[email protected]
360-765-4397

M-4-220's can be found in the $40k range. Is that too much dough? Are you including fuel costs as a factor of the operating costs? Not withstanding a little higher fuel consumption the M-4 is relatively cheap to operate.

I'll throw in with S.R. The operating costs are reasonable (at 24/24 we can can set a watch at 10.5g/h) The IO-360 might be a little more expensive to OH than the Franklin and the parts for the Maule have been as little as 10% of what you're used to. Example: New fuel selector valve Cessna = $750-830, Maule = $92.00. But I'm biased too.
That being said, the Pacer is a great plane, (the predecessor to the first M-4's!). I had the opportunity to fly a 180 hp with a CS prop. It was quite a ship and I understand that the 150/160 is good too. The other one that surprised me was the T-craft. In feb. I was in AK and flew a 100hp model up to Rainy pass. Not fast but a real solid & capable craft. Of course that rag wing of yours is hard to beat too! Didn't AVCOM make a kit for that model too? Might be worthwhile. Perhaps a makeover is in the future? A ragwing with attitude!
Kurt

I've considered an M4-210 or M4-220. Actually, my first choice (given unlimited funds) would be a Cessna 180, but purchase price is WAY outa hand on these fine machines, operating costs are high, & parts prices are outrageous too.
Anyway,the M4: both the Franklin 350 & Continental 360 require 100LL, so I'd be looking at around 11 gph @ 3.10 or more (($34) versus a Pacer burning 8 gph of cargas @ 2.50 ($20). Plus higher overhaul/maintenance costs, insurance premiums, etc. Believe me, I've done plenty of number crunching,and decided to stick with 180 horsepower or less. I fly alot (160 hours a year or more) and the higher operating costs of more airplane is prohibitive.
Purchase price: a nice Pacer can be had for around 30K, a decent Maule is gonna be into the mic-forties from what I can see. They're out there for less money but either need re-covering or an overhaul,or have just been generally rode hard & put away wet.
John, tell us more about your new Maule.

Eric

There is an M-4 for sale on ASO for $38,000 as of 5-9-05.

Chris

jmtgt wrote:How goes the Pacer search?

To tell you the truth, I'm hoping to find some candidates close to home. I'm the kind of guy who likes to go look at something for sale, then go home & think about it, before I make a decision. That doesn't work too well with something on the other side of the country-- there's an awful lot of pressure then to buy even if it's not quite up to your expectations. After all, you don't want to have made that long trip for nothing.
I'm still keeping my eyes & ears open, hopefully a good one will turn up.

Eric

Eric,

Did you see the M-4 Rick Geiger has for sale at Cut Bank MT? He recently put a fresh Franklin in it after having his crank break in the old one. This plane seems to have everything your lookin' for (except higher gas and insurance costs). The other downside is he removed the avionics. It's on Barnstormers, but I'm guessing you've already seen it.

1972 MAULE M-4 220C • $37,000 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • Airframe rebuilt in 1997. 4000 hr. tt,2500 hr. since rebuild. Recovered, interior, wiring, ect. Franklin 220 hp engine 0 SMOH Dec 04 annual. Avionics have been removed. Air frame mods include VG's, STC'd McCauley prop, patroller doors, long range tanks, 26" tire field approval. Can deliver and will provide CFI check out with sale. • Contact Rick Geiger - MONTANA BY AIR LLC located Cut Bank, MT USA • Telephone: 406-949-5709 • Fax: 406-873-5549 • Posted May 6, 2005

Here is another less $ plane for sale if you are still looking. The engine is going to need some love soon, but the bucks are right.

CS

http://www.aso.com/aircraft/94802/

I'm kinda leaning the other way now-- instead of a sideways step into a Pacer from my 170, or a step up into more airplane (like a 200+ hp Maule), I'm considering a step "down" into a tube and fabric sport-pilot-legal airplane. Like a Cub, Champ, or T-Craft, or maybe a similar sort of homebuilt. 100 or so horsepower.

Eric

Eric, this is an interesting thread, we all love to talk about types. Have you ever considered a project plane? If you have the time you can save some money. On to another thought. What about homebuilts? There are some neat single seat bushplanes that look like they would do great on 100hp. Which do you like?
I wonder if 100 ponies will be enough up in the mountains for a two seater?
Just rambling now, but if you've never flown a champ, there used to be one for rent over at Harvey. They are really fun, I highly recommend flying one.

I'd like a flying airplane. A project would be OK if I had another hangar or a big shop at home to put it in. But I don't. A "flying project" (aka work in progress) would be OK. I've considered building an experimental, something like a Just Highlander or Airdale Flyer, but I think I'd bog down & crap out before finishing-- even the mfr's "estimated build time" (ha!) is usually close to a thousand hours, so I figure 2 thousand would be closer to the mark. Especially for a non-A&P rookie like myself. This new LSA category has a "advanced kit" aspect to it where the 51% rule does not apply. But as I understand it,the kit mfr in question has to have certified at least one prototype as a factory built S-LSA.
I have a little time in Champs and similar airplanes-- you're right, there are fun, and they'll meet most of my current flying mission requirements.
I think 100 or so horsepower is gonna be enough for me. Remember, the original Super Cub only had 95 horses. Just a matter of keeping things light- no electrics, etc.
I do go airplane camping a couple times a year-- that'd be the real weight challenge. I'd just have to keep it as light as possible, kinda like a flying backpacker. And let my buddies flying 180's pack the beer!

Eric

cub-like without the ludicris price that has come to be associated with Cubs & Supercubs.

I love it. You guys wanted spellcheck, now suffer the consequences!!

Jr, I say this becomes your new avatar.

jm- Doug loves embedded images, I am just filling in for him.

01V:

Are you maybe interested in a trade? I have a 90hp Champ fresh out of rebuild - around 50 hours on it. We're in Minnesota.

My wife and I find it a bit short of interior space for 'stuff' so I'm considering a step up into, among other possibilities, a C-170.

Drop a line and we can maybe talk.

jbar AT rice DOT willmar DOT mn DOT us

Jon B.

jmtgt wrote:I think we will have to launch a "where is Doug" campaign soon.

I'm still here, I've just been in a little bit of a posting funk lately. Been very busy with yard projects (building a patio), repair projects on my mom's house, trying to increase my income... the list goes on. No money for Avgas right now, it's depressing.

zane wrote:jm- Doug loves embedded images, I am just filling in for him.

What can I say, I'm a very visually oriented kind of guy.

That back-country pilot must fly over open water quite a bit, I see she's showing off her personal flotation devices.....

Eric

Hahahaha. I guess we know now what Doug is surfing for instead of airplane stuff. Nice thing about this site: Miss Flotation Device stays up! No censorship. (at least until we see nips.)

That's one of the models from my new website...one of my 'increasing my income' projects. I'll post a link later





...just kidding.

I just found out that my old Pacer is for sale. It is in some of the pics in my gallery. I'm not trying to help sell the plane, I just want to see it go to someone who'll take care of her.

That is funny.
That Pacer is about as tricked out as I could get it, but my Maule out performs it across the board. Except in one little area; it's a lot more expensive to operate. The Pacer was about 500/month, the Maule is closer to 1000. Performance costs.