Having owned both (previously a B model 170, and now an early 180)
I can say the crosswind capabilities of both aircraft are very similar.

The 180 wins in my book with the heavier airframe weight & higher
wing loading though. Put her down, raise the flaps + stand on the
brakes and the 180 is more managable in turbulent / crosswind
conditions than the 170 is (my old 170B with the Sportsman STOL
kit on it would float 5 feet into the air every time a mouse farted
somewhere on the airport....).

FWIW, I've landed both the 170 and 180 in 20+ knot crosswinds, and I'm
much more at ease doing so in the 180 than I was in the 170....

Ditto to what Gump and Bela said. The 180 is as good a X-wind airplane as any tailwheel airplane. It's capabilities far exceed mine, no doubt, and I've landed them in 20 knots...and I'm not brave and no hero. Just had few options.

MTV

I'm just finishing changing tires and brake pads (Cleveland double pucks) which brings to mind braking practices: How many of you 180 drivers feel comfortable really getting on the brakes while the tail is still in the air? (On rollout after wheel landing.)

I've applied some firm braking and the plane showed no tendency at all to nose over. It just slowed down nicely (flaps dumped at touchdown) then I set the tail down. Am I asking for trouble here or is braking while still tail high and rolling just bad mojo?

Langeweich...Langewish....the guy that wrote Stick 'n Rudder...says no worries...just brake and the tail won't come up and over.

For crosswinds, 15 from the front quarter is about my personal comfort limit now. Direct cross with the sock standing straight out and I'm looking for another runway. If I can't straighten it out on short final, bolter!

Brian

mtv wrote:Gump,

I fully agree with your instrument panel concept, as long as one accepts your caveat: That the thing be primarily a backcountry airplane.

That said, my counter is that the 180 is also a really good stable IFR machine as well.

It is, and if it was mine, I'd want the radios. I think we've discussed this subject ad nauseum on this site, and not being equipped, rated and proficient for IFR means you're not using your airplane to it's fullest potential.

But that's just me, and like your geologist friend, if I want to play in the boonies for work or fun, then shoot an approach to minimums into a place like SFO so I can get home, then that's what I'm gonna do. A C180 is a perfect airplane for that.

akroguy wrote: How many of you 180 drivers feel comfortable really getting on the brakes while the tail is still in the air? (On rollout after wheel landing.)

You are NOT going to roll that airplane over on it's nose no matter how hard you brake. A lot of times, especially in heavy winds, I'll bring the airplane to a complete stop with the tail still in the air. Eliminates any conflict wanting the rudder to go one way and the tailwheel the other.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:.........You are NOT going to roll that airplane over on it's nose no matter how hard you brake. ........Gump

I don't know that I'd go that far! Like they say, nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently determined fool.
I get on the brakes pretty hard while up on the mains in my 170, which has later-model (forward-swept) 180 gear legs & double-pucks. But I balance that with plenty of back stick. If you go wizzin' in on the mains & shotgun the brakes, it wouldn't be too hard to nose it over or at least paint a little brown in your britches. I've seen it happen.

Eric

Different beast entirely.

My C120 was a balancing act too, and it always felt like it wouldn't take too much coaxing to go over. Not the C180/185.

Gump

I will put on lots of brakes with the tail in the air,(Pavement)It seems to ME that once you get on them the control is pretty good, don't want to flip it over,but as MR Gump says it should take a bit to go on your back.Dirt, sand, slop ect..... a bit different,every landing is different.Brakes ,no brakes wheelie 3....pointer...Thats why I love it..........Good time today! sorry for not having food with the team,Got My ass kicked on the way back to Truckee Gusting 26 upon arrival, straight accross all runways,going in circles(I guess thats standard for TRK at noon in July)REALLY bumpy in places! The only smooth air I found was over Yerington at 100 ft agl,,,,,,,Climbed in a left turn,,,, took my beating and went home.Drank some beer went to the pond with the kids....Today was great.

Low Rider, of course you can fly my 180 around, I trust you. But once you do I think you are going to start spending $$$$ You did well with your bird. I just gotta get through this fire season, then we can trade for a day.

Akroguy, absolutely, I may take a trip to NM this fall, maybe we can meet up for some flying.

As for many of you questioning the early models and IFR, a relatively simple solution, Avion. My plane has the Avion panel, center stack, with the T-arrangement and the modern 1.5" drop yokes. Its has last generations King radios and nav equip. but its full IFR. I will try to take a picture and post it this week. The Avion kit was $3400 w/ yokes. That was 8 years ago. Once again, you can pretty much find a mod to make a 180 the way you want and not make it a pig.

Reguarding x-winds, the 180's modified with the larger dorsal fin as the 185, are more difficult in x-winds for sure. But the smaller stock tail is perfect. But I wouldn't land with full flaps in a hefty x-wind. Carrying power while braking will do wonders in your x-wind control. Also, if you are loaded aft, ie. the ext. baggage is full,... you better be on it. Because once you let it swerve the weight and momentum will be greater than the rudder effectiveness. As long as you are not sloppy it will reward you with honest results, of course most taildraggers will.

Splashpilot wrote:
Akroguy, absolutely, I may take a trip to NM this fall, maybe we can meet up for some flying.

Roger that. Fall in NM is awesome. The smell of roasting green chile, cottonwoods and aspens changing colors along the Rio Grande, great time to fly. We have three 180's on the airpark here. All 50's models.

Brian

a friend of mine has his 1955 180 for sale. I have put about 600 hours on it. It was majored 300 hrs ago. A fine old girl. look up Bismarck Aero Center in Bismarck ND .

Ok one more question for those of you who own a C-180. What does insurance run you for the year? Last year I paid $1156 for the year on my C-170. I was wondering how that compared to the C-180.

Thank you to all of you who gave you opinion about the 180. When the time comes to buy I will will ask a lot more questions about what to look for in regards to what shape the plane is in.

I pay 1800 a year on an 80 185 125,00 hull ,that covers wheels and skis. That is thru falcon, avemco was 2300, but they allow storage option at 89 dollars a month and quarterly payments. Falcon is straight 1800 and no options, payable up front. I am switching to avemco, as i dont fly the wagon on skis much. The cub is easier to pull out of the hangar. I will store tha wagon in the moddle winter, as days are short and dont fly much nov thru march.

$2300 on '74 180 w/ 130,000 hull. Through AIG. No off airport exclusion. No Alaska exclusion.
Had a '59 which flew beautifully, nice and light, but not like the 170s which are a kite in comparison. Wanted to get one with a float kit / corrosion proofing and so have a bit more weight. So go the trade offs.

Sold my '55 model 180 a year ago, but my last insurance payment was $1800/year with no exclusions. $90K hull value.

Like Matt above, I gave up a nice light early model in the hopes of getting into a later model in the next year. Really looking forward to more room, corrosion proofing, panel space, and the other "nice to haves" that the later models provide from the factory. I could have modded my early model to include much of these but it didn't seem feasable at the time.

I have a buddy with a '79 model and its heavier but flies really sweet...just different. Heavier on the controls but more stable in approach. Much better tail wheel steering. With the later camber lift wing I instantly felt more confident at low speeds than with my '55 model (stock wing).

Bill

skymaule wrote:a friend of mine has his 1955 180 for sale. I have put about 600 hours on it. It was majored 300 hrs ago. A fine old girl. look up Bismarck Aero Center in Bismarck ND .

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an interior designed by Austin Powers.

CAVU

Well put cavu

I just bought a 54 C-180 in Febuary, and love it to death. It is a little on the heavy side, (not according to its logs) but it had what we wanted. It has a K engine, 88" prop, Avion panel, 3000tt, and updated interior.

It has great control in crosswind, but in a strong xwind, you need to use brake to keep it straight. The tailwheel steering sucks compared to our champ.

I am a low time pilot, insurance is $2100 for $75k