I have talked to three different gasoline distributors in Oregon so far and they are all telling me the same thing. By 16 September 2008, when the whole state is supposed to be E10, there will be no 91 premium unleaded gasoline available in the state for those SB 1079 users who need premium unleaded. The terminals will only be ordering and receiving "suboctane" blending stock for E10 which is about 88 AKI for premium unleaded 91.

I am working with some pilots in AZ on ethanol problems and they found out today that they have the same problem already, all suboctane blending product, and they don't even have a mandatory E10 law. They can't even order premium unleaded.

As a state goes ethanol in all of their gasoline, whether they have a mandatory E10 law or not, the terminals order suboctane blending product because the ethanol will bring the AKI up, about 3 points for E10 and it is cheaper (but do they pass along the savings?). Once that happens there is no premium unleaded anywhere for Petersen STCs or Rotax 912s (100 HP).

This is spreading rapidly. I will be talking to an Idaho Aviation Association board member about this tomorrow ... he is concerned. Idaho has no mandatory ethanol law but pilots are reporting that it is getting difficult to find unblended fuel.

-- Dean

I have been getting 87 oct non Ethanol at a bulk plant in Medford, OR. They have been going to Portland to get it. They get a little extra cus of the haul. Cost me 4.00 last week. Do you think that that will also go away?

Tim

qmdv wrote:I have been getting 87 oct non Ethanol at a bulk plant in Medford, OR. They have been going to Portland to get it. They get a little extra cus of the haul. Cost me 4.00 last week. Do you think that that will also go away?
Tim

Nobody knows. The suboctane for 87 blending is 84, and the suboctane for 91 is probably 88 but nobody will confirm that so far.

Suboctane 84 has a MON rating of 80 and that is the minimum for the EAA STC according to EAA, so it has very little margin. I was told by one source that the 88 suboctane would be available to SB 1079 folks as 87 AKI regular unleaded. If you could get that it would be OK.

our suplier for gas here in ontario said the fuel he buys will be 10 percent e in the pipe before he gets it no options after sep

tcraft wrote:our suplier for gas here in ontario said the fuel he buys will be 10 percent e in the pipe before he gets it no options after sep

Under a new law, SB-1079, you have a right to buy unblended gasoline for your airplane, wherever you can find it. Unfortunately the law is permissive and you must find the supplier. If you go to www.iflyit.net, you will find a section on suppliers that will have E0. We are working on getting the Oregon Department of Aviation tell us where the suppliers are all across the state.

The problem over here is that all of our supply comes from the Portland terminal and at some point in the Fall they are not going to be bringing in any 91 AKI "clear" stock, it will all be "suboctane" so we will not be able to even order 91 AKI even though we have a right to buy it under SB 1079 and there is even an airport, Lebanon State, S-30, that has a mogas operation on the field that orders premium unleaded.

You are supplied by either the Boise terminal or the Pasco terminal. You should check with them and find out if they are going to have any 91 AKI clear stock available for SB 1079 users in Oregon.

I hope you will look at iflyit.net and keep us posted on what is happening on your side of the state. We need the information. I will be attending a meeting of the Oregon State Aviation Board which oversees the useless Oregon Department of Aviation and letting them know that there is concern on the eastern side of the state. If you find that you cannot get the unblended gasoline you need anywhere, I hope you will tell us and tell the Oregon Department of Aviation.

our jobber here poole oil would like to supply it to me in future as he has for last 10 years he just sad in september im stuck i dont want eth but cant get around it he said he asked about planes etc and was given a no exceptions answer
he flies as well
unless you buy 10000 gals of avgas you cant get a delivery either not like a few years back
if there is a loop would love to let him know so he can supply people here as im sure he would

tcraft wrote:our jobber here poole oil would like to supply it to me in future as he has for last 10 years he just sad in september im stuck i dont want eth but cant get around it he said he asked about planes etc and was given a no exceptions answer
he flies as well
unless you buy 10000 gals of avgas you cant get a delivery either not like a few years back
if there is a loop would love to let him know so he can supply people here as im sure he would

Is this the Poole Oil in Ontario, OR? He can supply you with unblended gasoline under Oregon law SB 1079. Ask him to call the Oregon Department of Agriculture and talk to Russ Wyckoff, whom he should know. Russ is the Administrator of the Measurements Standards Division which overseas the Department of Weights and Measures which checks all motor fuel quality, etc. or show him this:

http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/MSD/docs/pdf/ ... 032608.pdf

Popped down to the local Marine Fuel supply station on Janzten Beach (Portland). They carry 87 octane ethanol free fuel but it runs $4.67 a gallon. 92 octane car gas is running about $4.30/gallon.

I checked it when I got home just to make sure, using the water test, and it came up fine, unlike the 92 octane I purchased from a local service station.

I also wrote to my state representative and senator requesting that premium car gas be mandated to be ethanol free. I suggest everyone else do the same. Phoning is better and I'll do that soon.

Craig

GroundLooper wrote:>...
I also wrote to my state representative and senator requesting that premium car gas be mandated to be ethanol free. I suggest everyone else do the same. Phoning is better and I'll do that soon.
Craig

Thanks for notifying your representatives. I have asked my representative Gene Whisnant to introduce a bill in the Oregon House when the next session starts to mandate that only 91 AKI unleaded gasoline be allowed into the state for blending under HB-2210. He has agreed to do it.

As the original topic states, by the end of the year there won't be any 91 AKI gasoline coming into Oregon, it will all be suboctane for blending with ethanol. Unfortunately SB-1079 is permissive, there is no requirement to provide unblended premium unleaded.

However there is one last chance to reverse this. The OAR that implements SB-1079 as the law is still subject to public hearing. There will be a public hearing on Tuesday, 24 June 2008 at the Oregon Department of Agriculture in Salem from 10AM - 12PM. You can find out more about it here: http://oregon.gov/ODA/MSD/index.shtml
It is the "Public hearing to implement the renewable fuel standard" announcement and the text of the proposed permanent rule is linked.

I have proposed the following rule be added to the OAR:
"Premium unleaded gasoline, ASTM D 4814, 91 grade or higher shall be the only base stock for premium unleaded in the state." into section 603-027-420 Standard Fuel Specifications. Hopefully OPA will ask for the rule, if they don't I will.

This will insure that premium unleaded is always available in the state and will not impact the blending requirement of HB-2210. If we are successful, we are hoping Arizona and Idaho will also press for this law, because suboctane blending is taking over in the west. If it happens maybe EAA and AOPA will wake up and begin to understand the scope of this problem.

We could use everybody's support, either at the hearing or an email to the Oregon Department of Aviation and Oregon Department of Agriculture.