watkinsnv wrote:This idea that you don't need a medical is fooling a lot of people right now in the LSA market. true you don't need a medical. But you have to be healthy enough to pass one. If there is anything wrong with you, that you couldn’t pass a medical and you know about it you can’t fly LSA. Lose your medical buy a LSA Wrong. Don’t renew your medical because you know you can’t pass one, Buy a LSA Wrong. The FAA is in the process of making this a lot clearer. This is going to be a lawyers field day. Lance

As one who was sitting in the AME's office three years ago when Doc said, "I have bad news Old Man, you have diabetes and I'm gonna have to ground you." And then making that call to my Chief Pilot to tell him that my airplane was NOT going to be flying in the morning... It sucked pond water.

Took over two years to get it all squared away, and gave me lots of time to think about what to do if I never did get my medical back. Sell everything off, and go collect butterflys for fun? Or, say "screw it!" It's my airplane, I'm sticking to the dirt and only drinking buddies and the dog fly with me, and if I croak in the air there's nothing expensive out here in the desert to hit.

Fortunately I wasn't forced to make that decision... Yet. But I don't think butterflys was gonna be the answer.

Gump

To feel the same concern as the OP I would have to know that there is a substantial (not a ton, just a meaningful number) of accidents caused by medical incapacitation of the pilot. I certainly have not heard of any (let alone many).

Anyone else?

Michael in NH[/quote]

The statistics show that pilots incapacitated during flight due to medical reasons occur very seldom and are not a cause for concern. A person driving a car with poor health is much more of a danger.

Poor judgment typically kills GA and experimental pilots via fuel starvation, flight into IFR, low-level aerobatics, flying a non-airworthy airplane or drug/aclohol use. There are significantly fewer instances of a pilot crashing that should have been medically grounded. And these are usually caused partly by the pilots have taking some perscription or over-the-counter drugs.

Incapacitated pilots aren't causing mishaps. Pilots making poor decisions are.

I think Lance makes a valid point, though. A moron crashing because he shouldn't have been flying hurts us all...law suits, bad press, higher insurance, more regulations, fewer airports.

crazyivan wrote:

Incapacitated pilots aren't causing mishaps. Pilots making poor decisions are.

I think Lance makes a valid point, though. A moron crashing because he shouldn't have been flying hurts us all...law suits, bad press, higher insurance, more regulations, fewer airports.

Well, like you say, "incapacitated pilots" are NOT causing mishaps. And on the extremely rare occasion when they do happen, it's an un-diagnosed, unknown problem that gets the pilot. Guys are getting grounded for things that really don't affect safety at all, and certainly don't stop them from legally driving. And a car is a whole lot more potentially dangerous than an airplane in terms of hurting other people.

Bottom line is, self-certifying how you feel before you strap on your airplane and some common sense. A medical issued yesterday doesn't guarantee a damn thing about how safe you are to fly today. I don't need some bureaucrat from the government telling me how I feel. Bob Hoover is a prime example of how things are trying to become.

I've always wondered if the flight medical is a bleedover from the military, where high g-forces and complicated aerobatics are much more common.

Two or three years ago the FAA made a big sweep through my area and, after comparing people's medical records against the info they provided on their flight physicals, went out and prosecuted fifty people who had lied on their medicals. I don't remember if they actually arrested the folks, but it was much more than just a letter in the mail. I seem to remember that jail time was being threatened.

Seems to me that the thing to do is get a copy of the medical requirements for a successful flight physical, then go to your family doctor and see if you'll pass before you go to the flight surgeon. If you're not going to pass, then just let it expire and go LSA.

It's easy to think you can keep flying without a medical and not get caught, but our courts are full of people who thought they would slip through the cracks and didn't. It's probably worth some research to see what the consequences are...

ravi wrote:It's easy to think you can keep flying without a medical and not get caught, but our courts are full of people who thought they would slip through the cracks and didn't. It's probably worth some research to see what the consequences are...

October 2000, he decided to fly from Chandler AZ to Florida. Fire up, taxi out and take off from CHD without talking to ground or tower, and then fly to Texas for the night. Somehow made it, landed and told gas boy to "fill 'er up" and he goes to town. Next morning he takes off without checking fuel or gas caps and makes about 25 minutes before the fire goes out from no fuel and he dead-sticks into Andrews Texas. Of course he stalls about 30 feet up, and splats the airplane into the ground and destroys a nice old 401, and dings himself up in the process.

FAA comes to investigate, and finds no medical, no pilot certificate, no nuthin'.... Oh yeah, he's in trouble. Wrong.... All our hero does is just not answer the certified mail telling him to come in for a hearing. That's it, he just ignore the Feds. Nothing happens to him. Those of us who loved and knew the asshole asked the FSDO in Scottsdale and in Texas WTFO? And why they weren't going after this idiot, and got told, "We can't and don't have the manpower to look at something minor like this" "We're looking for terrorists!"

So... If ya want to ignore the system, not much is gonna happen to you.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 0308&key=1

Gump

I have to wonder how much of the decision not to take enforcement action had to do with the fact that the violator could afford a spirited, if pointless legal defense. Like everyone else accountable to a budget, enforcement agencies look for easy kills and avoid difficult battles.

Those of us with financial affairs that make us fall into the "easy kill" category might not have the same luck.

ravi wrote:I have to wonder how much of the decision not to take enforcement action had to do with the fact that the violator could afford a spirited, if pointless legal defense. Like everyone else accountable to a budget, enforcement agencies look for easy kills and avoid difficult battles.

Those of us with financial affairs that make us fall into the "easy kill" category might not have the same luck.

Sad, but probably true. Seems from horror stories I hear, that's how the IRS operates.

If Bob Hoover had been an "average Joe" and no F. Lee Bailey was waiting in the wings to stand up for him, he'd still be grounded. And I'm sure the FAA would be proud for making the sky so much safer for all the helpless citizens of this country.

ravi wrote:Two or three years ago the FAA made a big sweep through my area and, after comparing people's medical records against the info they provided on their flight physicals, went out and prosecuted fifty people who had lied on their medicals. I don't remember if they actually arrested the folks, but it was much more than just a letter in the mail. I seem to remember that jail time was being threatened.

It's easy to think you can keep flying without a medical and not get caught, but our courts are full of people who thought they would slip through the cracks and didn't. It's probably worth some research to see what the consequences are...

If it's the same incident I remember. The FAA and Social Security ran ssn's through a database of people nationwide receiving monthly social security disability checks and discovered just over 50 people who either lied to pass their FAA medical or lied at their social security hearing and are now looking at jail time.

sector15 wrote:

ravi wrote:Two or three years ago the FAA made a big sweep through my area and, after comparing people's medical records against the info they provided on their flight physicals, went out and prosecuted fifty people who had lied on their medicals. I don't remember if they actually arrested the folks, but it was much more than just a letter in the mail. I seem to remember that jail time was being threatened.

It's easy to think you can keep flying without a medical and not get caught, but our courts are full of people who thought they would slip through the cracks and didn't. It's probably worth some research to see what the consequences are...

If it's the same incident I remember. The FAA and Social Security ran ssn's through a database of people nationwide receiving monthly social security disability checks and discovered just over 50 people who either lied to pass their FAA medical or lied at their social security hearing and are now looking at jail time.

But... I think there's a BIG difference legally in not renewing a medical certificate and continuing to fly, versus purposefuly falsifying government records and signing your name to a legal document under penalty of perjury. Those guys caught up in the sweep are in trouble for lying, not for the flying.