Backcountry Pilot

[wirsig offline]

Between a Maule, Helio, and a Bush Hawk what would you choose and why? Just thought it'd be a good discussion.

[mtbowhunter offline]

Wirsig:

There was recently a thread on here somewhere comparing a Maule to a Sportsman, but there was some discussion of other planes as well including Supercubs, Huskies and the Bushhawk was mentioned, I think.

[Fisherman offline]

Helio - load, low and slow, stability, etc...

[lowflybye offline]

Wirsig:

There was recently a thread on here somewhere comparing a Maule to a Sportsman, but there was some discussion of other planes as well including Supercubs, Huskies and the Bushhawk was mentioned, I think.

Here is the one that you are referring to. It does have some info on the Bearhawk in it as well.


phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=963&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

-Low

[mtv offline]

No offense, but that's sort of like saying: "If you had your choice, which would you choose: The Space Shuttle, a Super Cub, or a Bonanza.

These kinds of discussions are less than relevant unless placed in context.

I'd take the Bonanza, by the way . I don't like really heavy gliders.

MTV

[hotrod180 offline]

Yeah, not exactly apples-to-apples. No used Bush Hawks out there, for one thing. Helio has a longer than standard wingspan, for another- may effect hangar requirements. Purchase price and operating costs versus capabilities, the Maule would probably better fit the needs of the average pilot. Using myself as an example anyway.

Eric

[wirsig offline]

I know it's not comparing apples to apples but a person can get into a high hour Helio for the price of a low hour Maule. The Helio has the upperhand when it comes to hauling while the Maule may be easier to get parts for. I didn't include any tandem setups because I'll have a better chance of getting my wife's approval if she's setting next to me. I've been enjoying your forums for a couple months and decided to pick the brains of you guys and gals who have tons of real world off airport experience. By the time I get around to purchasing I don't want to be wondering if I overlooked something.
Thanks,
Wirsig.

[lowflybye offline]

If you are new to tailwheels you need to try get as much time (more importantly landings) as possible in TW aircraft before you purchase one or you will have a hard time with insurance. If you can get time in the model you wish to purchase it would be even better...ie Maule time or Helio time.

[Dusty offline]

I had zero tw time and only 90 hours when I bought my 170A. Insurance wasn't to bad but it 's not marketed as bush plane like the others. The worst part of it all was the pressure having a $50,000 plane you can't fly puts on you to learn.

[mtv offline]

wirsig,

Okay, the point of my comment was what do you want to do with the airplane?

The Maule is relatively small, compared to the other two. Useful load is quite small, compared to the other two. Speed is likely faster than the other two. Can carry lots of gas, or very little, depending on how much range you need, and how much load you can leave at home.

The Helios are fantastic performing airplanes. They are getting really hard to find. They are not difficult airplanes to fly, but they are VERY different airplanes to fly. This is an airplane that just won't work for you if you try to fly it like other aircraft. Flown well, there is simply nothing on the planet that will touch one for back country flying. There are turbo charged versions, so density altitude is less of an issue. Maules and Founds are NOT turbo'd. There is a turboprop version of the Maule, though--you just can't carry enough gas in those.

The Bush Hawk is a heavy duty, big airplane. It has the same airfoil as a DC 4, and it flys sorta like that, too. If you are a low time tailwheel pilot, the Bush Hawk is probably the easiest tailwheel airplane to fly I've ever operated.

You can buy a Found and a Maule new. All Helios are pretty old.

MTV

[wirsig offline]

mtv,
that's the kinda info I was looking for. I think a M7-235 would be a great match for me. The majority of my flying will be piddling around low and slow with a cow pasture landing here and there. But I do want to have the ability to load up with my wife and see Canada and Alaska if I get the time. I also want the ability to take a couple friends along for weekend ski trips without worring about overloading the plane. That's the only reason I'm even thinking about the Helio or the Found. Oh, I'm also fascinated by the take off and landing abilities of the Helio.
Thanks for your input.

[mtv offline]

wirsig,

THAT's the kind of info one needs when commenting on airplanes. If you are going skiing, particularly with friends, do you take your skis along or rent them?

Getting skis inside a Maule might be an issue. I think they might fit crosswise in a Found or a Helio. Maybe. That could be the deal killer right there.

Burt Rutan designed and built an airplane around a family of four and skis. Interesting looking plane, but very mission capable.

The Maule is more economical than the others. If you can afford to fly a Helio some to get proficient, there's nothing like them. If you were to go that route, I'd get with one of the missionary flight training programs and have them put you through their course. THose folks can teach you to make a Helio sing. Fantastic aircraft, no doubt.

The Found is an easy lander, for sure. Its' a bigger airplane, and will burn more fuel than the Maule. So, depends on what your budget, time wise and funding wise is.

MTV

[TomD offline]

I was in the pattern today at Scapoose, OR with a Sherpa.

I thought I could slow down my M-5, but I think I could walk faster than the Sherpa on final ( we did have a 12 kt headwind but Sheesh that thing was going slow!!).

Big airplane with LOTS of wing.

Looks like the new model is an 8 Place bird for those who need to take their relatives along.

TD

[mtv offline]

But again, you have to compare apples to apples. The Sherpa is NOT certificated, the others are.

Further, there's no supply of Sherpas out there as of now. They were supposed to be importing kits, but I don't know if they have got there yet.

So far, the Sherpa has been a toy for the developers. Impressive aircraft, no doubt, but you can't go buy one.

MTV

[TomD offline]

The Helio, Maule, and Husky are at best four place aircraft and obviously in a different category. I was impressed at the landing speed of such a large aircraft. The AN-2 also has a really slow approach speed but is in a category by itself.

Probably could not afford a Sherpa in any case.

Don't know the regs. on flying an Exp. but this thing looks like a hauler.

If you cannot fly for hire, however, it does look like a really expensive toy.

But then again many Beavers are not used commecially today and this may be an option for those who want a larger aircraft for floats and backcountry.

[mtv offline]

Tom,

The Husky is a two seat airplane. Not in this category at all.

As to the Experimental category, if a company builds the airplane as Experimental, then sells it to you, it would have to go in the Experimental/Exhibition category, meaning you can fly it to and from and in airshows, and a bit of proficiency flying, but that's it. No cross country, etc.

Byron Root and Co. were talking about making the Sherpa available as a kit airplane, which, if owner built, would qualify for the Experimental/Homebuilt category, a much better deal.

MTV

[hotrod180 offline]

Experimental/exhibition-- not necesarily. If the airplane was registered as amateur-built experimental, as in the registered manufacturer (builder) was a private individual, then it would still be that. Airworthiness certificate should tell the story.

Eric

[mtv offline]

Eric,

Yes, there are folks who are "building to order" Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, and selling them to a customer. That is, however, a pretty iffy deal, and if the FAA decides the builder is actually "manufacturing" the airplane, it can become a real issue.

Read the rules for Exp/Homebuilt. They are very specific that the airplane is to be built for the education of the builder.

Again, there are folks skirting around this deal, but it's not something I'd want to build a business on, and I don't think the Sherpa guys would be either.

I hope at some point they get kits figured out, cause it is a heck of an airplane, and there are owners who'd build em.

MTV

[Berk offline]

...The Helio has the upperhand when it comes to hauling while the Maule may be easier to get parts for....Wirsig.

Talking to a Helio owner awhile back, he said that parts were very difficult to come by. I guess that's why we're not seeing 'em out flying much anymore. It'd be a drag to own such an awesome airplane, and have it be ground-bound for lack of parts availablility.

Berk

[FloatFlyer offline]

For what it is worth, every time I stop in Burns, Oregon I look at a Helio parked on the ramp. It looks like it hasn't moved for years. I speculate what it would cost to buy and get in flying shape but then my C-185 tells me not to have wandering eyes. I apologize and give her a pat on the spinner, thinking how lucky I am to have a great performing plane with little hassle that isn't pilot related. Later, Ford