If you look at the pics, it seems as if pilot was trying to abort at the last minute. Thats a lot of up elevator just prior to hitting the chute. Looks like he was right about the round out phase of the landing and perhaps tried to go around?

Is this a good lesson on the much debated issue of flying a "precision landing" where one is focused on the numbers on the AI and VSI to try and fly the perfect approach and not looking outside the plane much versus the one I use which is to look only outside the plane and fly it by the seat of your pants and not get distracted by the gauges and dials at this critical phase of flight? (the seat of the pants approach puts me exactly where I want to touch down every time but I cant seem to do that with the "precision by the numbers approach")

I'm gonna need to see the Air Safety Institute animated reenactment Flash presentation with the FAA tapes synced over before I can make any judgements. I do know that when they're flying kites and drones at my airport I just stay on the ground and fiddle with my GoPro settings.

All I have to say is thank the heavens for burst shooting so we can enjoy these action sequences.

akavidflyer wrote:If you look at the pics, it seems as if pilot was trying to abort at the last minute. Thats a lot of up elevator just prior to hitting the chute. Looks like he was right about the round out phase of the landing and perhaps tried to go around?

Is this a good lesson on the much debated issue of flying a "precision landing" where one is focused on the numbers on the AI and VSI to try and fly the perfect approach and not looking outside the plane much versus the one I use which is to look only outside the plane and fly it by the seat of your pants and not get distracted by the gauges and dials at this critical phase of flight? (the seat of the pants approach puts me exactly where I want to touch down every time but I cant seem to do that with the "precision by the numbers approach")

Full left on the aileron also, accelerated stall just before the chute wrapped around the wing?
So does a person have to have your radio on at this airport?? Lots of things will come out I'm sure!
Sure am glad it's 0-2 instead of the morgue for 2!!!! We all should celebrate that just abit!!
Pretty Bird!!

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'll say this anyway, if I get flamed so be it. I've been saying for 40 years that skydivers should not be landing on a public airport. If they can afford a Cessna Caravan for a jump plane, they can afford a Chevy van to drive jumpers back to the airport from a drop zone a few miles away. In 1976 I came within 10 yards of hitting a skydiver at Kalispell city airport on a Saturday afternoon, I was flairing in a C-172 when he passed directly in from of me from left to right and landed on a "bulls eye" beside the runway. I didn't have time to do anything, or even say O shit, a few seconds later and he would have been in the prop. The airport I fly out of now has a skydiving operation on the field, and they land away from the runway and make a good effort to avoid planes in the pattern, the way they operate now no one has any problems with them. 15-20 years ago they were a bad example for everyone else to say "don't be like them". The jump plane routinely made intersection takeoffs and cut off other planes, they NEVER flew a normal pattern to land, and they frequently dropped skydivers to land beside the runway when there was traffic in the pattern. They appeared to have the attitude that they owned the field and did whatever they wanted. After we know all the facts we can decide if we should crucify the pilot, the skydiver, the jump plane pilot, or all 3 of them.

M6RV6 wrote:

akavidflyer wrote:If you look at the pics, it seems as if pilot was trying to abort at the last minute. Thats a lot of up elevator just prior to hitting the chute. Looks like he was right about the round out phase of the landing and perhaps tried to go around?

Is this a good lesson on the much debated issue of flying a "precision landing" where one is focused on the numbers on the AI and VSI to try and fly the perfect approach and not looking outside the plane much versus the one I use which is to look only outside the plane and fly it by the seat of your pants and not get distracted by the gauges and dials at this critical phase of flight? (the seat of the pants approach puts me exactly where I want to touch down every time but I cant seem to do that with the "precision by the numbers approach")

Full left on the aileron also, accelerated stall just before the chute wrapped around the wing?
So does a person have to have your radio on at this airport?? Lots of things will come out I'm sure!
Sure am glad it's 0-2 instead of the morgue for 2!!!! We all should celebrate that just abit!!
Pretty Bird!!

If he had in full left aileron and full right rudder he may have been trying to make a heroic effort to slip that right wing past the chute lines... or try and get the lines to slide off the tip. I spose it will all come out in the end, but as you said, we should be celebrating the 0-2!

Skydivers and glider ops get priority and then think they shouldn't have to watch out for themselves. What a pain in the arse. Although the annual Skywagon fly in flocks would be competitive in the "I forgot others exist" category.

I wouldn't make too much of the control surface positions, doors opening, etc. As soon as the wing touched the parachute, everything that happened from that point on was built in at the factory. I doubt that anyone had time to think about doing anything to save the situation, they were just hanging on. My guess, which is a guess, is the high wing blocked the view of descending chute and when the jumper realized that there was a conflict, he was committed because of obstructions and closeness to the ground. Jumpers and planes have coexisted safely for years at the same airports, and will continue to do so. If coexistence is necessary to keep an airport open, then make it work. Learn, move on. We have enough crap directed towards aircraft and airports from folks outside the fence, that we don't need to feed on each other inside the fence. On another note, if the word "old" is used in a derogatory manner, such as "the old guy cranking the ice cream" at Johnson Creek/Garden Valley I will remove you from the ice cream line.

****

I don't have a dog in this hunt.

But it did inspire me to look up the regs:

Sec. 105.5 General

No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from an aircraft, if that operation creates a hazard to air traffic or to persons or property on the surface.

Reading through the remainder of the regs it's evident to me that parachute operations have no right to use an airport, quite the opposite, they require permission from the airport owner. I may have missed it but nowhere could I find anything that requires a powered plane to give right-away to a parachutist. Certainly appears to me that the jumper is at fault here, not the pilot.

Of course most important is they both survived this mishap. And I am amazed at how well the 170 did, and that it ended up on its wheels.

Skydiveing is listed as an aeronautical activity right next to Ballooning, gliders,ultralights ect. If an airport receives federal money , that airport is supposed to guarantee indescriminent use to all legitimate aeronautical activities. Lots of people forget that when talk of skydiving comes up. On the other hand there are definitely some places that are not suited for it .(We could argue where is suitable and get a lot of different thoughts on that)... Hey , maybe the guy in the 170 wasn't landing on the runway . Maybe he was over where the skydivers always land ........Hmmmmmmm

The problem with the LZ at South Lakeland is that it is relatively small and directly adjacent to the only runway. It is at the extreme southern end and has power lines nearby. Like many small airports, they need the revenue generated by the jump center. It is a fairly active center and has a usually good relationship with the local pilots.
For the 170 pilot to be that low that close to the south end, he had to have skimmed over the power lines at the end and flown quite low over the Gas station / Store near the road.

Section 5-5-8 in the AIM is titled See and Avoid. It is ultimately the pilots responsibility to see and avoid obstacles and other air traffic.

Skydiving is very popular in South Florida. And on any given nice weather day you will find jump operations going on in half a dozen airports
near South Lakeland. In addition, there are quite a few ultralights based at the field. Many without radios. Blackwater Creek, a busy ultralight field is nearby and most weekends a group of ultralights head to South Lakeland and several other strips nearby.

What all that means is that you have to have your head in the game if you are doing flight ops at South Lakeland.

S-12Flyer wrote:For the 170 pilot to be that low that close to the south end, he had to have skimmed over the power lines at the end and flown quite low over the Gas station / Store near the road.

The old fart has probably been hittin' the numbers for 60 years....hell, sounds like one of us back country types.

@robertc you're my favorite old fart for making that ice cream!

Not to mention that the jumper can make a right pattern instead of left and avoid most of the exposure.

I know the jumper has the right of way - but that still makes them asshats.

low rider wrote:I've been flying jumpers for almost 20 years and have around 10,000 skydives under my belt. I have seen all kinds of interesting things happen in that timeframe. I'm sure that the jumper is a nice guy but if you swoop across a runway and you get hit by a plane you are an idiot in my book.... Parachutes are much more maneuverable than airplanes and should not be swooping across the runway.

Animated photo sequence:

http://imgur.com/CQQPwRr

Zzz wrote:@robertc you're my favorite old fart for making that ice cream!

I think the term "fart" used with the term "old" is derogatory. Zane and Terry, you are in ice cream jail. Oh yea, Zane isn't going to come to the fly in this year, slacker. I hope I'm not to old to pull him out of the ice cream line next year.

robertc wrote:

Zzz wrote:@robertc you're my favorite old fart for making that ice cream!

I think the term "fart" used with the term "old" is derogatory. Zane and Terry, you are in ice cream jail. Oh yea, Zane isn't going to come to the fly in this year, slacker. I hope I'm not to old to pull him out of the ice cream line next year.

No disrespect intended, in fact I would say if it were left up to the young we wouldn't have any ice cream at JC, all they want to do is eat it.

Terry wrote:

robertc wrote:

Zzz wrote:@robertc you're my favorite old fart for making that ice cream!

I think the term "fart" used with the term "old" is derogatory. Zane and Terry, you are in ice cream jail. Oh yea, Zane isn't going to come to the fly in this year, slacker. I hope I'm not to old to pull him out of the ice cream line next year.

No disrespect intended, in fact I would say if it were left up to the young we wouldn't have any ice cream at JC, all they want to do is eat it.

Ouch. Wait, am I young?

Terry wrote:... if it were left up to the young we wouldn't have any ice cream at JC, all they want to do is eat it.

You have no idea how much Adam, Sadie, and Tyler enjoyed the leftover ice cream after everyone left! And that is all they wanted to do!

Just watched the animated version, just me, or was that the shortest landing ever!
Clean it up a bit and I think he's onto something....

reading some comments on another page.
Food for thoooooooooooooooought on blaming the Old Guy!!


Several commenters stated that “skydivers always have right of way over aircraft, so the (87 year old) pilot is obviously at fault”. I couldn’t remember reading about skydivers having right of way over aircraft in the FAR, so I went and looked it up (FAR 91.113) and, sure enough, there is no mention of skydivers in the several categories of aircraft and which has right of way in the air.

I also went and read, for the first time, a portion of FAR Part 105.23 c, which covers parachute operations over airports. Sure enough (as I always assumed), the FAR specifically prohibits skydiving ops that would interfere with aircraft in the airport traffic pattern:

“(c) A parachutist may drift over that airport with a fully deployed and properly functioning parachute if the parachutist is at least 2,000 feet above that airport’s traffic pattern, and avoids creating a hazard to air traffic or to persons and property on the ground.”

ALSO
I hear “jumpers away” often, but seldom hear an “Jumpers on ground” call over the CTAF. Seems this would improve communications between jumpers and aircraft in the area.