How may of you use Mo-gas (auto gas)?
I have an STC and have found a few stations around me that don't have ethanol mixed in, mostly Country Mark gas stations.
I have heard good and bad things, but I know the airplane I trained in ran mostly (90%) on Mogas and went past the TBO on the last two overhauls.

Pros:
Good for the environment (I would imagine most of us care quite a bit about this)
Even better for the Wallet
No lead fouling
I swear I burn a bit less per hour (-0.5gph)

Cons:
Logistics
Doesn't store as well (just a good excuse to fly more )
Filling the plane standing on a ladder sucks
It stinks
more difficult to see the presence of water

Still no moon shine in Union 76 premium here in Eburg even though everyone in Washington seems to think it is law. I tested when I filled up yesterday. I quit using Chevron when the water line in my olive jar went way up in the Chevron gas in July 07.

I have an STC for my 58 182, but run strictly 100LL now. The previous owner ran mogas all the time with now problems. I ran it for about a month and although I liked the savings, I hated it. It stinks if you get just a little bit on you, and stunk inside the cabin, too. I think now it's hard to find non-ethanal fuel in the Boise area anyway.

My old o-470 loves mo-gas. I only fill up with 100ll when away from the home base and have to. I've yet to see any ethanol in fuel in Utah and I have been testing it for a few years now. If you test your fuel and use a good water block filter you will have no problems with fuel contamination. For me, the economics of mo-gas make it a no brainer: Current 100ll price at KSLC (with .30/gal discount) = $5.17; Current local mo-gas price = $2.44 (costco is my favorite, their high volume keeps it fresh); Savings per gallon = $2.73 x 12 gal/hr means I save $32.76 every hour I fly! The hourly savings multiplied by my engines TBO (1500hrs) = $49,140 which is enough to pay for TWO factory overhauls! Now tell me why anyone would ever run 100ll when they could legally use mo-gas?

I started using it this past summer, and have flow about 70 hours so far without any problems or any noticable difference in perforance. I use it all the time for local flying, but on long trips away from my home airport, I fill with 100LL. I put a slip tank in the back of my pickup, and a 12V pump that makes filling up a breeze. I always test for presence of alcahol, and test the vapor pressure in the hot months with a Reed Vapor Testor. I have found the Exxon stations in S.E. Idaho don't use ethanol in their gas, and according to the manager don't plan to in the future unless forced by law. I fly a 1953 C-180 with the O-470J.

WOW $5.17 or $5.47 a gallon for 100ll
I filled up yesterday for $3.73 a gallon 100ll
have you checked Avweb.com it says KBTF is $3.96 for 100ll self serve, and is only 5 miles away.

Pat,
TA travel shop on Broadway and I-84, as well as Phillips 66 on Overland right in front of the Wally World have straight gas in Boise. The owner of the Phillips 66 is an antique car buff or something and has vowed to stay ethanol free as long as he can get his hands on the stuff. On Friday afternoons and Saturday mornings there's always a line of folks with boat and ATV trailers filling up for the weekend.

$4.00 a gal. at Caldwell right now.

$3.85 at Jerome last weekend.

BTF is currently 4.89/gal for 100ll per Airnav.com... so using that price I guess I'm ONLY saving $44K per TBO.

Matt 7GCBC wrote:Pat,
TA travel shop on Broadway and I-84, as well as Phillips 66 on Overland right in front of the Wally World have straight gas in Boise. The owner of the Phillips 66 is an antique car buff or something and has vowed to stay ethanol free as long as he can get his hands on the stuff. On Friday afternoons and Saturday mornings there's always a line of folks with boat and ATV trailers filling up for the weekend.

How about the Phillips off of 84 and Garrity in Nampa? They advertize Ethanol Free Diesel. But, I already sold my tank and pump last year. Just got tired of the smell and my primer pump didn't like the mogas (became hard to push in and out). Went back to 100LL and the pump went back to normal.

I ran mogas for about 20hrs. after about 10 when I'd shut down my engine would "diesel" then run backwards for a second or two. I looked everywhere for what might be causing it and found nothing. Started running 100LL and no longer have the problem. Now i fill one tank with mo and the other with 100ll, I land on the tank with 100ll and everything is good.

I found the same thing as DEGJR...the exxon stations in Idaho Falls were ethanol free and planned to stay that way.

Guys, it is SO EASY to take the ethanol out of car gas ! You substitute a little bit of your time and effort, and you save about a buck a gallon... and you make your car gas STC valid and legal again, and you make your airplane insurance valid again.

Put a see-thru tank in your car, fill it up 3/4 with car gas. Then fill it the rest of the way with plain water.

Mix it up thoroughly by either driving on a bumpy road, or make up some sort of a drill powered paint mixer thingie to get it all homogenized. Or stir it with a wooden paddle like a Halloween witch in a cauldron, it doesn't matter...just get it all mixed up completely.

Water abosrbs alcohol. This is exactly how the EAA and Petersen STC's tell you to check for alcohol in the first place. You're just gonna do it on a large scale instead of a small glass jar.

Now drive to the airport and sit there for a little while and wait. Go fly for half a day using the gas you got last week, allowing your tank to be still in the hangar or on your truck. Wait until the water has absorbed all the alcohol OUT of the car gas. It will settle to the bottom of the tank. Then wait some more, to make sure.

You should have a layer of water/alcohol on the bottom of the tank, and all the car gas (without the alcohol) above that.

Now just DRAIN OFF the water (which has absorbed the alcohol into itself), which should leave you with ethanol free car gas in your tank.

Since we're talking about airplanes and flight safety here, you have to run a test on what's left in the tank to make 100% sure there's no water in the gas. Test it once or twice to be safe, your kids will thank you.

When you are completely free of water in your remaining car gas, it is ready to put into your airplane. Then be sure to test it again by draining the fuel into your little plastic tester on preflight.

You have just reduced your cost of fuel by 1/4 or 1/3 depending on the local avgas/car gas prices. You have put in a small amount of time, bought a see-thru tank of some sort, and probably bought a little transfer pump or crank pump in the process. However, you can streamline the time and effort by figuring out the most convenient time and palce where you can let the water settle out, and figuring out the best way to mix the water and gas on the ride from the station to the airport, etc.

The most important thing from a rulebook perspective is that by proving you have no alcohol in the fuel, your airplane's auto fuel STC and your insurance are legal.

Bill

Two problems with that:
1) you're paying for that 10% ethanol that you're throwing away.
2) More importantly, I understand that ethanol is used as an octane booster -- in other words, they start with (say) 80 octane base, & add 10% ethanol which boosts it to 87. You get rid of the ethanol, you drop back down to 80 octane. Not good.
It might be that premium grade 91 octane ethanol/gas uses 87 octane for a base, so losing the ethanol would still leave you 87 octane. But maybe not. Sub-octane fuel can cause detonation & burn holes in pistons-- esp bad if that happens over hostile territory.
We can still get 87 octane clear gas locally at Cenex, if & when that goes away I don't know what I'll do. Sure hate to spend the extra money for 100LL and have to put up wioth plug fouling too.

Eric

Thanks for the info Bill. I should have thought of that. The recreational equipment lobby is still strong enough in this state so we have "off road / collector car only" ethanol free 91 octane pumps in many locations. Especially in the lakes country.

150 hp O-320's are designed for 80 octane fuel... I used to run red fuel up until the late 90's. Little Continentals are 70 some odd octane capable. (don't recall the actual rating)

I totally expected this poll to be the other way, with everyone hating Mogas and having all kinds of horror stories.

It is true however about the fuel with ethanol,the base fuel is of lower octane which is then increased with the addition of Ethanol.

Has anyone had any issues in mixing 100LL and Mogas?

Mongo wrote:Has anyone had any issues in mixing 100LL and Mogas?

Not me, and my friend/mechanic said it does not hurt to mix.

Anybody know of non ethanol fuel in California? I have fiberglass wing tanks so I'm afraid to run it. I have a two stroke rotax that runs better on Mogas than 100LL and the price difference is approaching $1.30 a gallon in my area.

Mongo wrote:I totally expected this poll to be the other way, with everyone hating Mogas and having all kinds of horror stories.

It is true however about the fuel with ethanol,the base fuel is of lower octane which is then increased with the addition of Ethanol.

Has anyone had any issues in mixing 100LL and Mogas?

My 140 (0235) hates 100LL it actually misses when you run straight 100LL. All I have ever ran in it since is 50/50 100LL and Chevron Supreme.
When I got me new Sportsman with the IO360 The Lycoming rep showed up at Glasair while I was there. Although it is not complete yet they are working on approval for mogas for the lower compression engines. He said as long as the mogas has no additives it is OK in their engines.

Here's a mogas story for you. Years ago I made a deal with a guy on an airboat. It has a 0290 D2 in it. The deal was I would fix the thing up and could use it when ever I wanted. I got it all fixed up and good to his word, I ran the piss out of that boat using 87 mogas. One day he went with me on a bear hunt and I pulled into the chevron station to fill the boat. He said "Are you burning mogas in my 0290?" I said I have been for 2 years. He said I don't think your supposed to do that. I said well, I have probably a 100 hours on this thing now with mogas and it runs like a scalded dog! So he bought off on it and were still burning mogas in it today! This happened in 1996 (Yea, it's still an awesome running boat! If it had wings...it would be a Super Cub!)

My engine is certified for car gas. I never run more than 50% car gas and mix it with 100LL. Called the factory when my plane was new and they said if I ran straight car gas to back the tining off a bit.
HC

Guys PLEASE watch out!!!!
Hotrod150 is 100% wight here. EZflap,s homemade fuel "could" put you down HARD!!
BRD you are off in your thinking. 80 octane AVgas is more like 87 octane mogas .
Read on the pump next time you fill your car {R+M /2} . So 80 octane mogas is about like 73 octane Avgas