[I split this off the C170 Drivers topic -Zane]

blueldr wrote:Re; Operating the Continental IO-360 in the C-170B.
Fuel consumption is the same as the C-145/O-300 at THE SAME AIRSPEED.
The FUZZ will become hostile, red in the face, stamp their foot, and violate you if you feed your IO-360 mogas, but the engine doesn't give a damn and loves it. Spark plugs stay nice and clean too.

I don't care if the fuzz gets red in the face, but from what I hear one of the first things the accident investigators check is fuel. They pour a sample into a styrofoam cup, if it stays in there it's avgas, if it melts right thru it's cargas. If I pile mine up, I don't want my insurance outfit refusing my claim due to use of unapproved fuel.
What grade cargas do you feed the IO-360-- will it run OK on 87 octane, or do you need 91? I would guess the Franklin 220 with it's 10.5/1 compression doesn't like any grade of cargas. Matt?

Eric[/i]

MoGas in Franklins: Not approved. Haven't tried it. Dowanna try it. Ain't gonna try it.
M

Started Mogas program on 91 oct. Engine ran fine. Switched to 87 oct. Engine still ran fine. Settled on 87. Happy!
I don't worry about what the insurance companies will do. I am eighty three (83) years old and the last insurance agent I talked to concerning hull insurance had a laughing fit that put him in the hospital in convulsions. I have broken my toys, very seriously, on a couple of occasions and just cry a lot, and then try to fix them again. All it takes is money! All of us old geezers are rich! We get social security from you young guys!

Both Petersen Aviation and EAA have cargas STC's. I'd choose EAA, no pain-in-the-ass adel clamp-type engine placard to install like Petersen. You must inspect carb to be sure a metal float has been installed, I believe there was an AD to replace all the plastic floats. It should have a M stamped on the carb data plate. You need to file a 337 (ya need an IA, an A&P can't approve for return to service) and do a logbook entry. Both EAA & Petersen charge a buck a horsepower for the STC, so it'll cost $145 plus whatever your IA hits ya for.
My preferred blend is about 25% 100LL and 75% 87 octane cargas. Saves about $6 an hour that way over straight avgas. I've been running my C-145 on this blend for close to 1300 hours-- runs great, plugs are always clean, no problems attributable to fuel. Cargas supposedly doesn't have a long shelf life, so if the airplane is gonna sit for long periods of time 100LL might be a better bet.
Contact EAA or Petersen for more info, they both advertise in T-A-P.

Eric

Does anyone know of someone modifying the fuel line on a 180 hp 172 avcon conversion to do away with the fuel pump so you can get the autogas stc?
Stan

I'd talk to Harry Dellicker at DelAir in Porterville CA. He has an STC for the O-360 in the 170/172-- in fact, it may even be the old Avcon conversion STC.
Looking at these old posts, I realize that I haven't seen anything by Blue Leader in a long long time. Dick, you still with us- posting under another name maybe?

Eric

There were a few 180hp 170's that were modified to remove the fuel pump years ago, here in Fairbanks. They replaced the selector outlet fittings, fuel lines, and strainer with 1/2 in. hardware all the way to the carb. I have a copy of one 337 that has a avcon conversion. I don't know if it would be possible now a days.

Paul

Fred Dyen was the one who got those field approvals for changing the fuel lines. He taught at the A/P school at Hutchinson. He did this conversion to his 180 hp 172, AND got a GW increase to, I believe, 2450?? on that airplane, since the structure is the same as the later, heavier 172's. Fred was pretty good at getting Field Approvals done.

Hes' in the lower 48 somewhere now.

MTV

Paul, Would it be possible to got a copy of the paperwork for that 337?
It would be helpful. I have a 1/2 inch line to the gascolator and have never needed my fuel pump.
Thanks Stan

Been useing car gas in my 1954 Cessna 180 with the O-470J since 1988, no problems at all, car gas got rid of the lead fouling problem that I had when I was useing 80/87. Wont make any differance pretty soon as both car gas and av fuel will cost the same.

hawker, I sent you a PM.

Paul

hawker wrote:Does anyone know of someone modifying the fuel line on a 180 hp 172 avcon conversion to do away with the fuel pump so you can get the autogas stc?
Stan

Stan, have you talked to Peterson and/or EAA and been told that the electric boost pump installation prevents them from issuing a cargas STC? I'm looking to buy a 150/150 taildragger and have been planning to run car gas in it, but as I understand it that engine conversion uses an electric boost pump also. So maybe I'll be SOL as far as an STC goes, eh?

Eric

Not sure of the relevance, but Maule I believe puts a small cooling scoop on their O-540's when equipped for car gas for the electric boost pump. As it comes from the factory, I'm not sure if it's an STC or on their TC.

a64

Is not that cooling scoop ducted to the engine driven fuel pump?
It is on my 180hp. The electric fuel pump is changed completely.

flyer

Eric
I talked to Peterson on my 172. The way I understand it. With the 180 hp avcon conversion when they got their stc the fuel burn at full power climb at sea level was right at or a little over the fuel line flow.The added fuel pump was in the stc rather than a larger fuel line.Peterson had a 172 180 avcon on auto fuel stall on takeoff roll and blamed the fuel pump and did no further testing. I would call and ask on Your 150.Total different fuel burn,testing etc.
Thanks Stan

blueldr wrote:Started Mogas program on 91 oct. Engine ran fine. Switched to 87 oct. Engine still ran fine. Settled on 87. Happy!
I don't worry about what the insurance companies will do. I am eighty three (83) years old and the last insurance agent I talked to concerning hull insurance had a laughing fit that put him in the hospital in convulsions.

I think we may have overlooked something that is very cool. 83 and still flying?
Cheers!

I think we lost Harry in 2013. Sorry to bump this old thread, but I'm curious if anybody got a copy of the aforementioned field approval 337 to replace the fuel pump installation (particularly with the DelAir 180hp conversion) with larger fuel lines and a gravity system that allows mogas?