I hope the video represented the airplane at over full gross weight because that sucked, I would not post that video to impress.
Just saying


You want it to look more like this, now I had some wind but that does not matter when you are trying to impress

To be fair and this is only second hand information but the source was good. Loni habersetzer once told me he had a chance to either fly in it or fly it (it's been a long time ago) and thought the guy was onto something. Loni is a true cub guy like a guy is to fords so it must be true.

That Goat looked like a 1000 ft take off run.

Kevin wrote:How damaged is the Goat? Putting it back together without drawings etc. might be a challenge. I dug up the issue of Northen Pilot with the Goat a while back. Was a real feel good article about the airplane. I like the above post comparing to ford truck owners, you will NEVER change the mind of a PA18 lover.

The main damage is to the upper wing skins. The rudder needs repair and recover. The windshield and plexiglass needs replaced. And we need to check out the engine. Other than the wings, the rest of the repairs are comparatively easy.

Didn't post the video to impress anyone, nor do I fly to impress anyone. Bill followed me into one of my favorite fishing holes. I shot the video of him taking off. To be fair, he was using a 76/56 cruise prop. I have have never been impressed with his short field skills anyway. From what I have seen it will will takeoff and land with most average Super Cubs. After you leave the ground the contest is over. It will climb about 2000' per minute and cruise around 140-145mph all day. I've seen it out climb one way airstrips, that I cannot out climb or go around on with the cub.

he was using a 76/56 cruise prop.

I was going to say, it sounds like he's turning 2200 rpm.

I'm with Gump, I've seen moose eat super cubs, deer will eat em, cows will eat em and horses and bears will just tear em up, sure don't see why a goat wouldn't eat one.

That's what I was figgurin'

Gump

alaskacubdriver wrote:After you leave the ground the contest is over. It will climb about 2000' per minute and cruise around 140-145mph all day. .

Looking at that video clip (thanks for posting), you can immediately see why the Mountain Goat can cruise faster than a Cub. It looks like it has some sort of NACA 6000 series laminar airfoil, or Whitcomb GAW, or perhaps a Riblett derivative of a NACA laminar airfoil. And perfectly smooth contoured wing skins all the way back to the controls.

There's no free lunch; exotic airfoils work really well but only in a narrow operating environment, and they go bad outside of that environment. Non-exotic airfoils work fairly well in the 120 mph range, over a much wider range of environments, with less maintenance. Moose poop, ice, dirt, rock dings, etc. on that Goat wing would be a much bigger deal than on any Cub/Maule or Cessna/T-craft type airfoil.

Any trained aero's and airfoil scientist types can feel free to correct me (Dr. Drela... Herr Hepperle... ?) but I believe Alaska bush flying is just about the poster child for high tolerance turbulent flow wing sections.

Some of his other ideas on the Mountain Goat may have merit... single strut, composite wings, cleaner landing gear, better cowl, etc. etc.

Anyone wants to build a better mousetrap for real world bush flying? FWIW, one good approach is a 75% scale AN-2 biplane, with a little better airfoil and an LS V8 engine. You could get a lot of wing area into a narrow footprint, large cabin, and safe docile handling. Safe on car gas, strong as an ox, room for a big ass door.

No offense to you guys, but none of you have flown it so all you can do is speculate. Bill installed an ultralight airspeed indicator on the left jury strut. I have stalled it at 24 mph, two people, 30 gals gas in wings, 40F, 2000' msl. Did steep turns at 30 mph! The stall is a none event. Move to stick forward to the neutral position and it recovers. Stalls straight ahead. If one wing drops, pick it up with rudder or aileron. Typically Bill landed at cub speeds or higher, why I don't know. He also held it on the ground too long and pulled flaps when he could climb quickly. I intend to install a much better climb prop, maybe a ground adjustable one, and 31" bushwheels. Then I will go through the drill. Lots of slow flight and stalls. And many, many practice short field landings and takeoffs. I have to see for myself what this airplane will really do

alaskacubdriver wrote: Bill installed an ultralight airspeed indicator on the left jury strut. I have stalled it at 24 mph, two people, 30 gals gas in wings, 40F, 2000' msl. Did steep turns at 30 mph!

I am guessing that 24mph is not accurate, the only way to really check it is to stall it with gps in the four directions and take the average. I have a ultralight airspeed indicator on mine and it is not correct, to many pilots take the airspeed indicator as the real stall speed. If it does stall at 24mph you should bring that bird to Valdez for the competition because you would have a good chance of taking home the gold=the free set of bushwheels that goes to the winner.

Greg

Mauleguy wrote:

alaskacubdriver wrote: Bill installed an ultralight airspeed indicator on the left jury strut. I have stalled it at 24 mph, two people, 30 gals gas in wings, 40F, 2000' msl. Did steep turns at 30 mph!

If it does stall at 24mph you should bring that bird to Valdez for the competition because you would have a good chance of taking home the gold=the free set of bushwheels that goes to the winner.

Greg

Actually the Goat did compete in Valdez in 2005 in the Experimental Class. Listed below are both the Bush Class and Experimental Class results:

Bush Class Takeoff:
1st Chuck McMahon , Gakona , PA-18 150 hp , 78'
2nd Cole Ellis , Nebesna , PA-18 160 hp , 82'
3rd Leif Wilson , Tok , PA-18 180 hp , 87'

Bush Class Landing:
1st Matt Piatt , Wasilla , PA-11 100 hp , 99'
2nd Mike Stitzel , Valdez , PA-18 160 hp , 152'
3rd Chuck McMahon , Gakona , PA-18 150 hp , 160

Experimental class.
Takeoff:
1st Bill Wilcox, Valdez, Zenith CH801, 139'
2nd Bill Montagne, Palmer, Mt. Goat, 147'
3rd James Frisby, Palmer, Zenith CH801, 151'
3rd Steve Bryant, Anchorage, Producer, 151'

Landing:
1st Steve Bryant, Anchorage, Producer, 247'
James Frisby, Palmer, Zenith CH801, 248'
Bill Montagne, Palmer, Mt. Goat, 270

alaskacubdriver wrote:No offense to you guys, but none of you have flown it so all you can do is speculate.

Fair enough. No offense taken at all. I have not seen it, have not flown it, and I'm not an experienced AK pilot. So anything I've said about the flight performance of the Mountain Goat is speculation, based on a simple (and not degreed) understanding of low-speed aerodynamics.

On the subject of performance, can anyone shed some light on the performance of financial investments, partnerships, or purchased goods involving Bill Montagne? So far the only personal experience here (other than my story from 25 years ago) seems to be from someone who is involved in a court case with Montagne. Speaking only for myself, I'd sure be interested to hear about the many successes that people have had doing business in aviation with Bill Montagne.

Ez,
Maybe I have some sort of sixth sense or was able to see into the future a bit....Many years ago when Mr. Montage first came out with his Mountain Goat I was extremely excited to read about its performance. I had a few phone conversations with him in regards to purchasing a kit. I came very close to buying one of the kits but something in the back of my mind told me to hold off and wait. I followed its 'progress' and realized it was not selling like I figured it would. I think at the time it was at the high end as far as kit prices were concerned and that may have had some to do with it or other 'lookers' had the same intuition that I had. I had money burning a hole in my pocket but at least was smart enough to forgo the purchase. This was when he was in Cali. I personally think he was on to something with it and had physically looked at the plane a few times, but as you state, his business practices left a lot to be desired. Too bad......I think he could have had a great product if he would have had better marketing sense. My 2cents.

Here is my latest video from footage I shot last summer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVUJd7e1 ... Nw&index=1

alaskacubdriver wrote:Here is my latest video from footage I shot last summer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVUJd7e1 ... Nw&index=1

Neat video - you sure have a few angles on that plane. Great to watch!

EZFlap wrote:

alaskacubdriver wrote:No offense to you guys, but none of you have flown it so all you can do is speculate.

Fair enough. No offense taken at all. I have not seen it, have not flown it, and I'm not an experienced AK pilot. So anything I've said about the flight performance of the Mountain Goat is speculation, based on a simple (and not degreed) understanding of low-speed aerodynamics.

On the subject of performance, can anyone shed some light on the performance of financial investments, partnerships, or purchased goods involving Bill Montagne? So far the only personal experience here (other than my story from 25 years ago) seems to be from someone who is involved in a court case with Montagne. Speaking only for myself, I'd sure be interested to hear about the many successes that people have had doing business in aviation with Bill Montagne.

I know many of the players who have had dealings with Bill Montagne, and few, if any, have had a positive experience. It seems that it is always someone else's fault when Bill doesn't do what he says he is going to do. Don't ever have any dealings with him whatsoever!!!!