I am sure that this has been covered a million times, but I am a newbie and have not found a link to answer my question

Can you pros give me some advise on NF land on dos and don't. Can you land on NF strops in Co., Id, Wy,or Mt, ? I am looking for a place to camp while bow hunting Elk, mainly in Co, but would consider Id, and then the other states. It would be nice to be able to camp next to the plane and hunt from there.

thanks

senoiaslim wrote: Can you land on NF strops in Co., Id, Wy,or Mt, ? I am looking for a place to camp while bow hunting Elk, mainly in Co, but would consider Id, and then the other states. It would be nice to be able to camp next to the plane and hunt from there.

Any strip that says USFS and is on a Sectional chart is fair game. Camping is automatically assumed, but some are much more interesting than others. Airnav.com is a good resource if you can get an identifier, or you can also do a search by Lat/Long. Utahbackcountrypilots.org has a wonderful database of seldom used strips complete with pictures to whet your appetite.

Just because a strip is on the chart does NOT mean it's safe or practical for your plane! I highly advise getting Galen Hanselman's book "Fly Idaho" and/or "Fly Montana" before charging off into the wild blue yonder. Local instruction is a must for some of the more hairy strips, but there are lots that any competent mountain pilot can handle without that.

After some research you can post questions here on specific strips.

Enjoy!


Rocky

Hanselman's coming out with a new one, "Fly Utah".

Rocky,

What about strips that are not on sectionals and in NF. I assume that they are used by the forest service. Are they fair game to use? Or how about areas that you can land on that there are no strips. Will the forest service have a fit over that?

Not meaning to stray from topic , be verrrrrrrrrrrry careful when you combine flying and hunting. Most states have very strict laws against such things.

senoiaslim wrote:Rocky,

What about strips that are not on sectionals and in NF. I assume that they are used by the forest service. Are they fair game to use? Or how about areas that you can land on that there are no strips. Will the forest service have a fit over that?

To my knowledge, there are no legal USFS strips that are not shown on sectional charts. There are many other private or semi-private strips that are not shown on Sectionals. Research these on Airnav.com by lat/long, then contact the owner. Inside National Forest boundaries in the lower 48, the FS is VERY negative about landing just anywhere. As far as I know it is completely illegal with a few specific exceptions. Inside these boundaries there are often many inholdings, state reserves, and other land ownership. Sometimes the maps look like swiss cheese, but you can't make any assumptions without research, and each entity will likely have different rules about off airport use. Local knowledge is worth it's weight in avgas, because most land managers these days just don't have ANY sense of humour. (Neither do most sherrif's deputies.)

It may seem like it, but it's not really the Wild West anymore.

That still leaves hundreds of really cool and legal places to land in the West where you are unlikely to see more than one other airplane during the week, if that.


Rocky

Thanks Rocky,

I kind of suspected this and just thought you or someone may know some tricks to getting into NF land. With these strips not on the sectional and you have a lat/long for them, will they show up on airnav. Showing me the possible owner?

Also, I flew for Rocky Mountain Airways years ago and enjoy flying the rockies, but I would love to know where to get the Flying Idaho book or the Mountain flying bible book.

CAB wrote:Not meaning to stray from topic , be verrrrrrrrrrrry careful when you combine flying and hunting. Most states have very strict laws against such things.

Can't speak for the other states but it is legal in Montana.

senoiaslim wrote:Rocky,

What about strips that are not on sectionals and in NF. I assume that they are used by the forest service. Are they fair game to use? Or how about areas that you can land on that there are no strips. Will the forest service have a fit over that?

You may not land on strips on National Forest land that are not depicted on charts as being open to the public. Some are depicted on charts for emergency purposes only but are not otherwise open for public use. For example go to skyvector.com and type in 3U7(Benchmark) as a starting point. Just north of there you will see a strip, the symbol has a "U" in the circle. You may not land there. The Forest Service doesn't use it either. From the air it looks like a sweet spot. You may only land on Forest Service land that is specifically designated for that purpose.

senoiaslim wrote:Thanks Rocky,

I kind of suspected this and just thought you or someone may know some tricks to getting into NF land. With these strips not on the sectional and you have a lat/long for them, will they show up on airnav. Showing me the possible owner?

Also, I flew for Rocky Mountain Airways years ago and enjoy flying the rockies, but I would love to know where to get the Flying Idaho book or the Mountain flying bible book.

You can land on BLM land anywhere there is a road. Had a friend that went up to the Missouri Breaks in north central Montana every year to hunt deer and elk. Landed on the road and camped out just like everybody else with vehicles. For the Fly Idaho book go here: http://www.flyidaho.com/

senoiaslim wrote:With these strips not on the sectional and you have a lat/long for them, will they show up on airnav. Showing me the possible owner?

If you do an advanced search on Airnav.com you should get every strip, public or private , that's in their database within your parameter, say 30 nm. There are many options to the advanced search. My experience is that the lat/long search may miss some, and I use a combination of Jepp data, sectionals, forums, State Aeronautical divisions, and just plain good old boy networking to get a name or an ident, then Airnav has a very high probability of showing the strip. If they do have it, their info is very complete, better than any other source I know, and they will have an owner or manager's telephone number. (hint: don't search for Rancho DeLuxe or you will get 300 hits...use part of the name that is more unique, like just "DeLuxe" .

Rocky

PS, Ah, so you're a RMA alumnus, eh? Ever fly with Willy Mensink?

Thanks Guys,

I talked to a ranger in the Nez. He told me that it was ok to land on strips such as Moose Creek etc. I was suprised that they were in Wilderness Areas and you still could use them. He told me that I couldn'r even use a bike when I was in the Wilderness. lol. I thought that was crazy that you can land a plane there, but can't use a bike in the area.

Rocky, I think Willy was before my time. I didn't get there until 87.

I appreciate the help to all. It will give me a starting point.

senoiaslim wrote:I talked to a ranger in the Nez. He told me that it was ok to land on strips such as Moose Creek etc. I was suprised that they were in Wilderness Areas and you still could use them. He told me that I couldn'r even use a bike when I was in the Wilderness. lol. I thought that was crazy that you can land a plane there, but can't use a bike in the area.

Actually, that is one of the most wonderful things about Idaho that is so rare in the rest of the world. You can actually land your flying carpet in a real wilderness and when you shut down and step outside you have been magically transported one hundred years into the past, where the only transportation you will encounter is a horse or a mule! Not only that, but there are bears, moose, elk, deer and even wolves to be seen or heard. We are so incredibly lucky that Frank Church had such a vision 40 years ago and we have the dedicated people today to keep that vision alive. When I first got into the Frank in 1980, I was certain that it couldn't last, that the environmental lobby or someone else would close all those strips before another ten years went by.

Well, here it is 2007 and these strips are in better condition with better information about them than ever! Get out here and enjoy them!

Rocky

PS. Touch and Goes are REALLY poor etiquette in the Wilderness. Stop in for a cup of coffee and a chat!

Bonanza Man wrote:Can't speak for the other states but it is legal in Montana.

Bonanza Man:

You want to be careful flying and hunting in Montana. It is ILLEGAL to hunt the same area over which you have flown in the last 24 hours. If you land at a Forest Service strip, plan on waiting until the next day before hunting. If there is a USFS level 4 or a FWP officer in the area you can be sure you're going to get a visit if you're landing in hunting season.

Joe.

Not to stray from the topic, but flying and hunting the same day in Montana is not illegal as long as you are not using the aircraft to spot game. If your use of the aircraft is solely limited to transportation, you can hunt the same day. Any game spotted during the course of the flight would be off limits under the "same hunting day" regulation.

-D

2520V:

Thanks for the clarification. You are right that, technically, you can hunt on the same day that you flew into an area in Montana. However, the regulations make it clear that, on the same "hunting day" you can not hunt animals that you spotted from an aircraft nor convey the location of animals which you saw from an aircraft to another person on the ground.

My point, perhaps stated in-artfully, was that if you go hunting on the same day you flew into an area, and you kill something, chances are very good that if there's a game warden or Forest Service law enforcement around, you are going to have an unpleasant experience. Maybe you could prove that you didn't spot the animal from the air. But that would be hard, unless you flew in before daylight. I think the better practice is to wait until the next day to hunt.

Joe.

mtbowhunter,

I understand your point, just wanted to point out that it is not illegal. I took this issue up with FWP Enforcement due to a situation on our family ranch near Glendive. We have two airstrips, one on either side of the river, it's a 10 minute flight vs. a 70 minute drive. They assured me that what I was proposing was perfectly legal. Flying into a backcountry strip or commercial for that matter, you don't HAVE to give up a day of hunting. When I head east I'm generally under some time constraints, so I take advantage of this regulation.

-D

In Alaska you cannot hunt the same day you are airborne....it's kind of hard not to see the game below at 500'....

I have some guide friends up in Alaska and up there I am pretty sure you can't Moose hunt the same day you fly in. However, that is the only place that I have heard of about flying the same day and hunting.

mtbowhunter wrote:

Bonanza Man wrote:Can't speak for the other states but it is legal in Montana.

Bonanza Man:

You want to be careful flying and hunting in Montana. It is ILLEGAL to hunt the same area over which you have flown in the last 24 hours. If you land at a Forest Service strip, plan on waiting until the next day before hunting. If there is a USFS level 4 or a FWP officer in the area you can be sure you're going to get a visit if you're landing in hunting season.

Joe.

Common misconception here in Montana. It is perfectly legal to fly and hunt the same day. It is only illegal to use your airplane for the purpose of spotting animals or helping others to hunt by spotting animals. But to fly in, land and then hunt, it's no more illegal to use your plane than it is to drive your truck.


http://fwp.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=26839

In case the link doesn't work it's page 20 of the 2007 hunting regs for Montana.