I'm looking at a flight between east Idaho and Fullerton, Ca and note there is a lot of Restricted and MOA airspace; most of it is in "Continuous" operation. I haven't dealt with Restricted or MOA airspace but it looks like the easiest option is to avoid it. That pushes my route east so I'll have to avoid Salt Lake City and Las Vegas since I have no ADSB.

You guys that deal with that airspace; what are the chances I can get cleared through it on a weekend?

You can fly VFR through MOAs without permission, and IFR if ATC can provide separation. No communication is required for MOAs if VFR, but I'd recommend VFR Flight Following, especially on a long trip over such a desolate landscape. Restricted areas are all over the place. We have a bombing range near here that is transitable when it's not hot, and a chemical weapons depot where I've never gotten permission to transit. It can't hurt to ask, but I don't usually expect permission.

i have gotten cleared through the restricted areas around SLT pretty regularly, especially early morning and weekends. The ones north of Vegas are pretty busy as are the ones there around Edwards AFB, so maybe, probably not. But, staying east of Vegas, should be able to avoid all of those restricted areas.

Below the floors of MOAs works good, not that military will not be below the floor. When going through Restricted with permission be sure they say "cold." I never accepted "open" or "closed" because it can be confusing for whom. If you see a red range flag, that means the range is hot.

We have a good amount of MOA’s around here - and as other have said technically you can fly through them VFR with out talking to anyone… but as a courtesy to our fellow pilots and controllers in uniform - I always use VFR flight following if my route is going to take me through them. Even had a couple cool F-15 flybys going through the Lemoore Naval Airbase MOA’s.

There used to be a Dona Ana Range east of El Paso that had a 500' floor. Going low through there in a C-150, a F-8 Crusader made a gun run on me. I did a steep energy management turn toward him to make him increase his dive angle and have to break off. After he backed off for the second run, I came up on 121.5 and asked, "Crusader over Dona Ana Range, how are things going today?" He broke and headed back to Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque where Navy Reserve Crusaders stationed.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't be better off going west rather than east to avoid the restricted areas. I've never been cleared through the Tonopah test range or the Salt Lake complex, but I've often been cleared through China Lake (2505/6) and Edwards (2515) on weekends when they're not active.

From Twin Falls, you could go to Tonopah, then to North Haiwee reservoir (south of Lone Pine), then to Lake Hughes VOR to get to Fullerton. Not sure how you'll get to Fullerton without ADS-B. Waiver? In any case, you'll likely want to use a low route into the LA basin, like Castaic Lake (south of Lake Hughes VOR) or Corona Pass. If you're cleared through China Lake and Edwards, then Corona Pass is less of a hassle for getting into Fullerton. You can also get there just fine from Castaic, but it takes more study and planning. And watch out for the that $&^%^#& 744' radio tower of the NW end of Fullerton.

For MOAs, I fly high, get flight following and use supplemental O2. That way, there's a decent chance for radio reception. There are just too many MOAs (and low level training routes outside of MOAs) throughout the West to fly around them. Best to squawk and talk.

CAVU

I'm from sw Idaho and lived in socal for awhile. I now live in AZ. I've made the trip a bunch of times from both places. In general, I ignore the moa's and avoid the restricted. I sometimes get flight following but not always. The moa's are all over the place and it's essentially impossible to fly in the west long distance without going thru one. The restricted are smaller and more avoidable. My normal route from socal was up the central valley to Columbia and jump over the Sierras, over to Winnemucca, then north. From az, I go up to Ely, north to Glenn's ferry, then west. That avoids all the restricted but trims a few moa's. You could do a combo of that by flying to twin, south to wells, west over the Sierras, then down the central valley. Sorry to hear you have to go into that mess.

Wayne

I agree with CAVU that the Owen's valley is an option to the central valley but you should check the weather. This time of year, and potentially anytime of the year, it's sometimes better to be on the windward side of the Sierras and not the leeward.

Wayne

I 100% just blast through all those MOAs. If below 10,000’ I wouldn’t bother with flight following because they won’t be able to see or hear you anyway and it’s not really “reliable” until you’re at 12. I go through the Fallon restricted areas a lot, just ask if they are hot or cold and if the person you’re talking to says they’re not the right guy, they’ll give you right frequency. They generally don’t give you a clearance, just notify you that they are “cold”, and that’s your ticket. I’d guess 2/3rds of the time I’m able to go through them.

If weather permits fly to Bishop then south through the Owens Valley
Contact Joshua Control and they can get you through the Mojave area .
Most likely you won’t be allowed to fly through Edwards but you can easily stay just west by palmdale
I would be way more concerned about getting from Mojave to Fullerton
Lots of Bravo and Charlie

Awesome! Thanks guys. I'm looking at these route and waypoints. Flying through the Owens Valley is something I've wanted to do but it seemed out of the way.

From east Idaho I was thinking south toward SLC, squeeze between the mode C veil and the restricted airspace, south to Delta UT, SW toward the SE edge of the Vegas mode C veil, Morris Reservoir, then into Fullerton. Seemed like the most direct route that kept me out of the restricted airspace.

I get why you don't normally want or need it,
but it seems like it might simplify your flight planning if you had ADSB.
Does anyone you know own something like a skybeacon or tailbacon you could borrow & install for the trip?
Reprogram it with your tailnumber, then just reprogram it & return it to the owner when you're done.

hotrod180 wrote:I get why you don't normally want or need it,
but it seems like it might simplify your flight planning if you had ADSB.
Does anyone you know own something like a skybeacon or tailbacon you could borrow & install for the trip?
Reprogram it with your tailnumber, then just reprogram it & return it to the owner when you're done.

Because of all the restricted airspace the only part simplified by ADSB is getting into Fullerton but getting the waiver is really easy. Very little reroute is made necessary from not having ADSB.

Moot point now though. I chickened out. All the airspace stuff, talking to ATC, long range weather planning made me too uncomfortable. We drove and it sucked. I was in disbelief at how busy the interstate was; packed starting in Las Vegas and continued all the way to the destination. Next time we go down that way I’ll be much more inclined to fly.

Thanks for the help guys!

The simplest and safest way to make a long trip is IFR. Next best, low.

whee wrote:All the airspace stuff, talking to ATC, long range weather planning made me too uncomfortable. We drove and it sucked. I was in disbelief at how busy the interstate was; packed starting in Las Vegas and continued all the way to the destination. Next time we go down that way I’ll be much more inclined to fly.

Thanks for the help guys!

Sorry about the drive. Bummer. I hear you about the long range weather planning. Wunderground's extended forecast goes out 10 days, but, at this time of year, nothing's very stable until 3-5 days out. If you don't have a supplemental O2 system, I'd look into buying one, or at least find a friend who will loan you one for the trip. That way, you can get radio reception and above the worst of the turbulence (provided you fly early).

Don't let airspace and ATC buffalo you. I've found ATC to be helpful. Moving maps have taken all the sport out of airspace. I can't believe what I put myself through with a single VOR and no DME back in the day. Great weight loss program.

Better luck next time.

CAVU

Whee I've made those flights several times from SoCal both up to Las Vegas then north thru Ely/Wells and north to into Idaho just using ForeFlight. The MOA's have never been a problem with traffic. The only airspace you would have to talk in is Las Vegas class B if you're under 10k' and Fullerton tower. SoCal app is optional but recommended.

The Fallon area is easy to get around Just stay clear of the R's. I've flow with and without flight following both ways.

Coming thru the Owens Valley is a piece of cake unless the mtn wave is working it can get a bit dicey. Dodging the restricted areas aren't that time consuming. China Lake (2505) and Edwards (2515) are the most you would have to deal with, weekends Joshua app (from Bishop to Cajon Pass) will usually give clearance above 7k' (China Lake usually above 10k' I think they like to discourage).

Come thru the Cajon Pass at 6500' over ONT class C top is 5000' drop to 6000' or less (under class B LA and into Fullerton. Easy peasy. If you want flight flowing, start at the south side of the Cajon SoCal app 127.0 but expect to have your head spinning they will be talking at about mach 2.

Good luck next time