Flight:
Yesterday I took a flight to the Arizona Strip -Northwest Arizona . I went north west of Grand Gulch in search of new strips that could be used to get away. About 25miles north west I found a strip very long and wide with some small buildings and shed . I wanted to mark the strip on the map so I punched the trusty SPOT (check OK ) and flew by at wingspan height. Good looking strip proably 3000 ft x 60 plus wide. Dirt of course with small ragged windsock. I was thinking of landing but decided I'd go back to Grand Gulch to have my Subway Sandwich. I flew over Grand Gulch and noticed wind was 90 degrees to main runway and blowing strong. Grand Gulch is narrow so I decided to press on to L25 -Pierce Ferry for a wider runway. I arrived at L25 10 min. or so later and landed ,wind was light and variable. I set out my lawn chair under wing and got out my sandwich/water lunch . After a hour or so the wind had picked up a little but still within reason. I proceed to the North end of the strip and dropped 10 degrees of flap in preparation for my departure. My normal departure is go full power on a roll and pull the nose up to keep the prop out of the dirt . I did and nose came Imeadiatly I reached down and grabbed Johnson bar and pulled another 10 degrees and we broke ground > just then the quartering (right to left) wind kicked in and we started toward the left hand side of runway .I rolled airplane to right to correct the "here come the bushes" and then it happenened _____ THE GOD DAMM SEAT Slid Back away from my normal position. I relized that unless there was corrective action soon it was going to be all she wrote for me and the 182. There I was nearly in back seat trying to pull my self forward -I grabed glareshield (thanks Dennis Ashby ) with my right hand to get me back in position. I was now 8-10 foot off the deck 40 knots and hanging on ! Lowered the nose and gained some needed airspeed and started to see some increase in altitude. Shifting my butt around and trying to lock the Cessna seat took another second or so. I was off the airport runway but Downtown Meadview was ahead. I thundered down toward the biggest part of trailers . I gained 2-3 hundred ft. and looked ahead to see a big tower overlooking "city center fire station"
I turned to the side and continued to climb . Old airstrip in Meadview still has a wind sock and a few airplanes about. For what's it worth I'm buying or making a new and stronger seat lock to prevent this from ever happening again.

As many times as I have heard and read about this makes me wonder how many single pilot fatal on takeoff crashes have been caused by this.
Unless the seat rails are obviously bad, even a thorough crash investigation probably would not find it.
All anyone would think is another dummy stalled/spun, while your ghost is screaming "NO!!! It was the @#$@@# seat!!"


When I finally get an AC I'm almost tempted to weld or padlock the seat in place. Inconvenient? Sure, but not as inconvenient as death.

Act Fast!
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... 4234bab&#d

Scolopax wrote:Act Fast!
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... 4234bab&#d

For what it's worth I contacted Cessna and ask for one of there seat kits -there response was "take it too one of our authorized repair stations"
and they would install. I contacted dealer at North Las Vegas and was informed "that next time you bring your airplane up for ANNUAL" the'll add it !
I wanted to do it myself -just give me the parts and I'll do it . My present seat (in the airplane at time) has 2 locking pins -left an right . Seat Rail left hand is only one drilled to accept seat pin. Seat is out of later model 180 or ??? but fits seat rails. I do have one of those red seat rail locks below seat that I tightened by hand-apparent that didn't work good enough. I've seen a bar that goes under seat to lock in place at Aircraft spruce.

182 STOL driver wrote: I do have one of those red seat rail locks below seat that I tightened by hand-apparent that didn't work good enough.

Did it slide on the rail when your seat hit it? Or was it just too far back?

Glad you survived!

The Cessna mod looked kinda hokey to me, but I checked it out on Jr's plane and it seems to work well.

Apparently, the secondary seat stops have to be installed correctly, or they may even make the "problem" more likely to happen. So, they want it done by a Cessna approved shop. Call your shop back and tell em to schedule it BEFORE yoru annual.

Mine was done in Park Rapids, FREE of charge for pilot's seat. No labor costs either. And, they bought me lunch to boot.

Frankly, though, these incidents shouldn't happen. Secondary seat stops are great, and should obviously be used, but frankly, most of these accidents are the result of either worn seat stop pins or rails, OR (and this is the more likely one) the pilot failed to ensure that the pin is firmly locked.

Once you have your seat positioned, wiggle the seat fore and aft, and at the same time, push down on the latching bar.

Assuming your seat rail AND the seat stop pin are in good shape, there should never be a problem.

Many mechanics look hard at the seat rails, and never look at the stop pins. The pins, in my experience are often worse than the rails.

MTV

Atlee dodge will sell you new seat rails I believe. make sure you check the pins too!

1SeventyZ wrote:

182 STOL driver wrote: I do have one of those red seat rail locks below seat that I tightened by hand-apparent that didn't work good enough.

Did it slide on the rail when your seat hit it? Or was it just too far back?

Glad you survived!

The Cessna mod looked kinda hokey to me, but I checked it out on Jr's plane and it seems to work well.

Can't say for the 182 but there is a reaccuring AD for seat tracks on the 170. In the service buletin it desribes how to check the tolerances of the seat rails for wear. Had this happen once because I did not make sure the pins were seated well in the rails...never forgot it after that. Wasn't quite exciting for me as it was for you...thank God!
HC

I love the looks my passengers give me when I am rocking the f*&k out of my seat like I am having an epileptic fit prior to engine start.......My A&P said the rails just barely passed last year. That's some scary s*%t to have it bust loose.

Flynengr

Bill, glad you're still with us and both you and the plane are in one piece. We had a couple of folks killed up here 2 years ago in a float plane that did that. Don't walk, run to the nearest Cessna authorized service station and have them install the fix in the left seat now. Don't wait until annual. I don't care how good you are at the cessna butt wiggle. The install and kit are absolutely free. Had my left seat done last month. takes from 5 - 8 hours for completion. Seems to work real good and isn't in the way. The mounting doesn't even interfere with my halon extinguisher that is mounted to the lower front of the seat. BTW, I still do the butt wiggle to make sure it's in and locked.

pat

182 STOL driver wrote:

Scolopax wrote:Act Fast!
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... 4234bab&#d

My present seat (in the airplane at time) has 2 locking pins -left an right . Seat Rail left hand is only one drilled to accept seat pin. Seat is out of later model 180 or ??? but fits seat rails.

<end quote>

This mismatched seat/seatrail arrangement probably increases the likelihood of sliding. The two pins on the seat are connected to a single release lever mechanism. If the right hand pin is riding on top of the rail it will prevent the left from fully engaging the hole in the left rail. Some flex in the release mechanism is the only thing allowing the left pin to engage at all. This seat was not designed to work this way! I would recommend either removing the right hand pin from the seat entirely (easier and cheaper, probably the proper "legal" approach) or installing a drilled right hand rail (stronger and safer, but not the right part for your model so more questionable legally).

The Cessna secondary seat stops really work well, and are a good fix in my opinion. The only critical part of the installation is the adjustment of the release cable, which ties into the regular pin release mechanism. It MUST be adjusted to release only after the pins have cleared the top of the rail by a good margin. Note also that Cessna will cover both the parts and labor costs of installation on the pilots seat.

-Pete.

The largest aviation vertict of all times.....Cassoutt v. Cessna Aircraft Co

Cessna paid dearly for these seat rail..... $480,000,000.00

yes $480 MILLION and we wonder why parts are so expensive

But then again, now a days, our fearless BO treats $480 million like pocket "change"

How can you tell if yout seat rails have been upgraded?

Jaerl wrote:How can you tell if yout seat rails have been upgraded?

Should be an entry in the airframe logbook that the upgrade/repair was performed (I would think).

I have never seen anything in my logs so a call to the Dealer might be in the future. I am buying a plane that has sat for almost 30 years so I will be sure to check it out. I can't imagine why Cessna wouldn't fix both seats. It wouldn't be to good if your passenger grabbed the closest thing (yoke) when their seat took off backwards either!

Jaerl wrote:I have never seen anything in my logs so a call to the Dealer might be in the future. I am buying a plane that has sat for almost 30 years so I will be sure to check it out. I can't imagine why Cessna wouldn't fix both seats. It wouldn't be to good if your passenger grabbed the closest thing (yoke) when their seat took off backwards either!

Especially if you passenger was stronger than you. But just tell them to "let go of the damn yoke!!"

Swingwing wrote:The largest aviation vertict of all times.....Cassoutt v. Cessna Aircraft Co

Cessna paid dearly for these seat rail..... $480,000,000.00

yes $480 MILLION and we wonder why parts are so expensive

But then again, now a days, our fearless BO treats $480 million like pocket "change"

Just wondering....

.....what President Obama has to do with a decade old lawsuit and the $480,000,000.00 settlement? As a reminder....even the biggest deficit spenders to this point in history..... like Ronald Reagan, Geo. H.W. Bush and Geo. W. Bush could not spend a penny.....unless the congress appropriated it.

Bob

this same type of accident occured at the root ranch when a 182 was dropping cookies. the pilot slid back to do just that, and the seat kept on trucking. he took the yoke with him, and one of the original founders of mccallmtncanyonflying.com with him...bad crash...low, slow, and a stall.