OK spent about 2 hours this evening with a Buddy of mine whom is working toward his PPL. We worked over flight planning, map reading, and airspace.

He is doing this in a Cessna 140 over in Boise. This 140 has been in his family for years, his Dad flew it, but passed on a few years back. So Mark has been working on restoring it for the past 5 years and is just now taking lessons.

Some of the things he does not have is a good 140 manual with V speed information. Cruise power settings, climb performance, etc...

Anyone got an idea where to get one? Or one that could be photo copied?
Or what do you other 140 drivers use?

This 140 has a C-90 in it too. He hasn't soloed yet, but is hoping to this weekend. So you guys and gals in the Boise area--LOOKOUT!

Thanks, See ya, Bub

LOL! Finding a "good" one is the problem of every 140 and 170 owner.

The early Cessnas came with an owner's manual, that strictly speaking, does not exactly live up to the expectations of those that are used to the modern POH. Outside of operating limitations and stall speeds, the speeds listed in the manual are "recommended" speeds for this and that and often one chapter will slightly conflict with another chapter in the book. Climb performance and cruise power settings? Forget about it! It will likely say something similar to "Cruise RPM setting - 2450 (or whatever) recommended."

If he doesn't have an owners manual, then one can be purchased quite cheaply from Esso: http://www.esscoaircraft.com/Cessna_Own ... s/3704.htm

Here are the operating limitations for the Cessna 140: http://www.cessna120-140.org/forum/download.php?id=1019

He can find a free parts manual at : http://www.micro-tools.com/pdf/cessna/ which I've found to be hugely useful.

The Cessna 120 and 140 owners association has a forum where he could ask specific questions. He should join!

Great link, Richard.

What is actually required to have on board is the Airplane Flight Manual. It's not necessarily the same as the POH, although sometimes they are the same.

My 170 has the POH booklet, but the required document is this old photocopied 2-page document with takeoff and landing distances, power settings, climb rates, etc for both McCauley and Sensenich props. It's the Airplane Flight Manual, the "Operating manual" in ARROW.

I searched on the Cessna 120-140 site and found a similar thread:

http://www.cessna120-140.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2534

So did the POH books come out after the original manufacture date? My POH looks preTTY old...

zane wrote:
Great link, Richard.

Aw, shucks

My 170 has the POH booklet, but the required document is this old photocopied 2-page document with takeoff and landing distances, power settings, climb rates, etc for both McCauley and Sensenich props. It's the Airplane Flight Manual, the "Operating manual" in ARROW.


So did the POH books come out after the original manufacture date? My POH looks preTTY old...

My second link above is the "Flight manual" for the C140, it has even less information than the one for the 170. I didn't think that was even possible, but apparently it is

It's my understanding that the approval data contained in the one or two page document now required to be carried aboard old Cessnas did come out later (though the data was always available ) in response to later FAA regulations requiring it to be on board. I will further posit a WAG that this occurred about the same time that "owners manuals" morphed into "pilot operating handbooks."

My wife is using a Cessna 150 manual for her flight training. It's not spot on, but it's close enough and it shows the examiner that she can use the graphs and what not. With a little adjustment it should be pretty close to the stock 140 performance numbers, except the W&B of course.

Well I'll let Mark know what you've all said. He must have the owners manual with not much info which like "Alaskaflyer" said not very informative.

I'll also clue him into the 120/140 association, in case he doesn't know.

Thanks, Bub

zane wrote:What is actually required to have on board is the Airplane Flight Manual. It's not necessarily the same as the POH, although sometimes they are the same.

My 170 has the POH booklet, but the required document is this old photocopied 2-page document with takeoff and landing distances, power settings, climb rates, etc for both McCauley and Sensenich props. It's the Airplane Flight Manual, the "Operating manual" in ARROW.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but my understanding is that for aircraft certified without an AFM, all that is required is the appropriate placards as listed in the TCDS. The performance data is technically not required to be carried on board the aircraft. However, since you are required to compute T/O and LDG data for every flight it's a good idea.

-Matt

ShamuPilot wrote:

zane wrote:What is actually required to have on board is the Airplane Flight Manual. It's not necessarily the same as the POH, although sometimes they are the same.

My 170 has the POH booklet, but the required document is this old photocopied 2-page document with takeoff and landing distances, power settings, climb rates, etc for both McCauley and Sensenich props. It's the Airplane Flight Manual, the "Operating manual" in ARROW.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but my understanding is that for aircraft certified without an AFM, all that is required is the appropriate placards as listed in the TCDS. The performance data is technically not required to be carried on board the aircraft. However, since you are required to compute T/O and LDG data for every flight it's a good idea.

-Matt

From the TCDS, showing required interior equipment for the 140:

403. CAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual (optional nomenclature:
"Approved Operating Limitations") and pertinent revisions applicable to the particular model and serial
number. Tentatively approved Airplane Flight Manuals in use up to and including the 1947 version
aircraft are acceptable without replacement.

And Zane, I think I missed your second question. Our owners manual (which did indeed come with the aircraft when it rolled off the dealers lot) does not qualify as a POH since it doesn't really have the "required data" listed in the TCDS, which is the reason why the two page document (in our 170's...one page in the 140's) has to be carried aboard. The owners manual isn't a POH in the FAA sense of the term, it is a...well, an owners manual

Ok, I hold in my hand as I type (which is making this kinda difficult) the official "Operation Manual for Cessna 120 140" that came with the airplane. And you're right, it leave's a little to be desired when compared with a modern Op Manual. However, it's pretty accurate on most things. My favorite part is the illustration showing how the battery won't leak when the airplane is sideways and upside down. Haven't had the guts to test that one yet. "Cruising rpm 2400. (do not exceed 2575)."
Under Before Landing, "Suggested glide speed 65-70 mph" I find that 65 is best for final and right around 60 over the fence, unless you're really trying to put her down short. Best rate of climb is 73ish. Can't emphasize enough the importance of joining www.cessna120-140.org - they know everything about these airplanes. Little gems like (for us) disconnecting the static port line from the actual static port (venting to cabin pressure) will give you far more accurate airspeed indication, especially in slow or top end flight. The static port location was still a bit of a mystery back then. Great plane, though!

You guys are correct. These aircraft had an "Approved Flight Manual" which, by the way, is SERIAL NUMBER SPECIFIC. They also came with an owner's manual, which has more to do with what cleaners to use on hte interior, etc.

The AFM has ALWAYS been required to be aboard the aircraft for flight. The owner's manual does not.

Since the 70's the manufacturers got together and agreed to integrate the AFM material into a "Pilot Operating Handbook", which for newer airplanes, CONTAINS the AFM.

You can (and SHOULD) purchase a LEGAL AFM for your Cessna 140/170 from Cessna to ensure that you have the correct one for your serial number airframe. They don't cost a lot.

You can also purchase a new "owners' manual" for these aircraft from Cessna, by the way.

Check the upper right hand corner (I think) of the AFM. It should list serial numbers applicable. To technically be legal, you have to have one that is appropriate to your S/N.

MTV

I read in that 140 club thread that Cessna will issue you a new AFM with your serial number for ~ $65.

Kinda steep, but gotta be legal!