over the last 2 years i’ve silently come to know y’all. i’ve read of your adventures to johnson creek and caveman, i’ve shared in the excitement of your re-builds, and i woot-wooted your stinsons and 140’s.

now the planets and stars and moons are all aligning for me. yippee skippee! i’ve sold my business and escrow closes in two weeks (keeping my fingers crossed). soooooo….. in two weeks + one day ill be on the road to maule, aviat, and cubcrafters.

i’m quite fortunate and blesssed to be in this position. i will be purchasing either new or a zero hour top to bottom rebuild. however i’ve never owned a plane, nor have i negotiated for one. what concessions could be had in price? accessories? options? or others? any thoughts you all can share regarding the negotiation/purchase process will be greatly appreciated.
cheers,
mark

btw, at this stage of my life i’m not desirous of purchasing used and acquiring potential problems, nor do i have the time and necessary skillsets needed for a “fifty one percenter”.

Having just sold and bought I can tell you that each plane/purchase is going to be different base on the owners situation and the history of the AC you're looking at.

My advice would be to take your time... The right bird is out there and you'll know when you find it! Also, spend however much money you need to on pre-buys. It is really the only way to know if you're getting a healthy bird.

One other thing - Post potential acquisitions on BCP. There are a ton of VERY knowledgable people that visit this board and most are eager to share their opinions and potential issues to look for. They have been a huge help for me.

Jim

Hi Mark and welcome. Airplanes are easy to purchase, just bring the green! It's a buyers market out there, your timing is good. I imagine if you want new, the three manufacturers you mentioned already have their lips puckered up to plant on your butt as soon as they answer the phone. Don't forget ACA in your list, Scouts and High Country Explorers are nice too. Buy the one you want with all the stuff you want on it and go have fun. Don't make the mistake of trying to justify the purchase either because you can't.

Edit: if you're thinking light sport you can buy a brand new Factory built Rans S20 or S7S and save all the build hassles.

Questions;

* how many flight hours do you have in the last year?

* What are your ratings?

* TW time?

First, find out who the dealers are in your district for those aircraft types. Then, do a little research on those dealers. With most manufacturers, you can buy from a dealer who doesn't serve your area if you'd prefer.....the manufacturer may assess a penalty on that dealer for "poaching" outside their district.

Of course, you can always rent a PO box near that dealer, and initially register the plane to that address......a month later, or two, send the FAA a change of address.

But, there are some good dealers out there, and some not so good. Remember, that dealer is the point of contact for warranty.

MTV

8GCBC wrote:Questions;

* how many flight hours do you have in the last year?

* What are your ratings?

* TW time?

* how many flight hours do you have in the last year? 1.7hrs yesterday. wanted to reconfirm the passion!

* What are your ratings? Private ticket SEL 07/14/1984 instrument rating: 12/15/1984

* TW time? ZERO

* Last GA flight : may 2, 1985

* Total hours: 537

mtv wrote:First, find out who the dealers are in your district for those aircraft types. Then, do a little research on those dealers. With most manufacturers, you can buy from a dealer who doesn't serve your area if you'd prefer.....the manufacturer may assess a penalty on that dealer for "poaching" outside their district.

Of course, you can always rent a PO box near that dealer, and initially register the plane to that address......a month later, or two, send the FAA a change of address.

But, there are some good dealers out there, and some not so good. Remember, that dealer is the point of contact for warranty.

MTV

thanks MTV this is quite helpful.

i have neither spoken with any manufacturer nor with any dealers yet. i didnt want to waste anyone's time or effort until i was certain my plans were solid moving forward. my thoughts are to first visit with manufacturers to narrow my choice of aircraft. are you suggesting i approach individual dealers first?

In the case of Maule, talk/visit with Jeremy in Angwin (also spend some time on maulepilots.org if you haven't already).

Have you scoped out the airfield you will fly out of and hangar possibilities? When I used to advise people on electronics, I strongly recommended they get what their friends had. If your intended airfield has a significant amount of Scouts, that would be a great plane for solo back country sight seeing. If there are RAN S7s, then that would be another great plane.

Rather than pull the trigger right away, consider hooking up with a flying club or FBO that will check you out and rent you something that you could see yourself enjoying. You will at least get some time to please the insurance company, make some friends and maybe even get a lead on something you want, OR decide renting suits your needs (no maintenance, no storage...)

New didn't have any correlation with lack of problems for me. Flying my new plane home from the factory, I was grounded during Thanksgiving week to get an ignition harness replaced; also the JPI fuel monitoring was not set up correctly, the 430 was not programmed to use the GPSS and the elevator autopilot servo plugs were not set up properly so that fell apart a couple of months later.

New also takes a while. In 2006, I was told 6 months but only waited 4. From conversations last summer, 6-9 months for an Aerotrek ($90K) (I got a demo ride at GNOSS), Pipistrel Virus SW ($140k) or Maule ($200K?) Last Oshkosh, there was a Savannah for sale at $60k.

Buying used, if you want new paint, should get done within 6 months, if you need to do something with the engine, should get done within 3 months. Any work you need done, should be at a place you can drive to every day and harass them.

markkal123 wrote:

8GCBC wrote:Questions;

* how many flight hours do you have in the last year?

* What are your ratings?

* TW time?

* how many flight hours do you have in the last year? 1.7hrs yesterday. wanted to reconfirm the passion!

* What are your ratings? Private ticket SEL 07/14/1984 instrument rating: 12/15/1984

* TW time? ZERO

* Last GA flight : may 2, 1985

* Total hours: 537

Looks like you are ready for new airplane!

Download AC Plane Sense from the FAA... First thing I did.

Totally my opinion here, so feel free to smack me down... With Zero TW time, spend some time flying the Maule before pulling the trigger on one. The Husky and Cub's are much more forgiving than the Maule, in my opinion. I have a ton of time in all three and believe (if it supports your mission) the Husky and Cub are much easier to land and control in an x-wind.

If you really need four seats, spend a bunch of time with someone who knows Maules inside and out. I sold mine (a 2000 MX7-180c) because I felt like I could not stay proficient with it and wanted more of a X-C machine.

I know you said new, but there are a bunch rebuilt 170 & 180's out there that are practically new! Having flown the 170 & 180 as well as the others, I think they easier to handle on the ground (verses the Maule).

Don't get me wrong, the Maule is a GREAT airplane. They are tough as nails, parts are cheap, maintenance is cheap, just understand what you're getting into and the commitment required to stay proficient.

Jim

thanks 8GCBC, downloading AC Plane Sense was one of the first things i did too! quite helpful!

8GCBC wrote:Looks like you are ready for new airplane!.

ready for a new airplane? geeaze yep.

my wife and i lived to fly.we were flying every day. if we went anywhere, it was by plane. y'all know... $100hamburgers… hangar parties … fly-ins… vacations… we were flipping john and martha king! except she had no aspiration to be licensed. she enjoyed sitting the right seat.

we decided it important for her to get some “what if…” training. in other words, in-flight emergencies happen and we wanted to be prepared.

the instructor was demonstrating stalls. my wife panicked. she froze solid – hands on controls. the plane spun out of control. it took 3500’ for the instructor to re-gain control of the plane and recover. that was may 2, 1985 - the last day she flew. the last day i was in GA plane. until yesterday.

we’re now divorced and i’m ready to start flying again.

^^^^^^ That's a pretty spooky story Mark and I can understand the wife not wanting to fly after that!!

I'm a new pilot and also looking to buy my first plane, either new or REALLY clean so don't mind if I follow along on this thread.

Am I missing something though.....how in the heck did you accumulate over 500 hours in such a short period of time? PPL in July '84 and last flt in May '85. Not doubting you, just curious.

Welcome and good luck!

Scott

Sierra Victor wrote:^^^^^^ That's a pretty spooky story Mark and I can understand the wife not wanting to fly after that!!

I'm a new pilot and also looking to buy my first plane, either new or REALLY clean so don't mind if I follow along on this thread.

Am I missing something though.....how in the heck did you accumulate over 500 hours in such a short period of time? PPL in July '84 and last flt in May '85. Not doubting you, just curious.

Welcome and good luck!

Scott

Hey Scott - Can't speak for Mark, but my first year of flying produced 362 hours of flight time... Ahhh, the good old days!

Sierra Victor wrote:Am I missing something though.....how in the heck did you accumulate over 500 hours in such a short period of time? PPL in July '84 and last flt in May '85. Not doubting you, just curious.

Scott

yep fair question.

back in the 1970's i started flying as a teenager with a youth flight club - $10 an hour. wow the club owned 2 cessna 150's. we had cfi's and a&p's who donated their time and services. unfortunately (or fortunately) the club's charter prohibited student pilots flying solo. i logged ~200hrs dual. the balance of the hours '84-'85 weren't so cheap!
aah-hahahahaha! the good ol days.

markkal123 wrote:

Sierra Victor wrote:Am I missing something though.....how in the heck did you accumulate over 500 hours in such a short period of time? PPL in July '84 and last flt in May '85. Not doubting you, just curious.

Scott

yep fair question.

back in the 1970's i started flying as a teenager with a youth flight club - $10 an hour. wow the club owned 2 cessna 150's. we had cfi's and a&p's who donated their time and services. unfortunately (or fortunately) the club's charter prohibited student pilots flying solo. i logged ~200hrs dual. the balance of the hours '84-'85 weren't so cheap!
aah-hahahahaha! the good ol days.

Unfortunately, times HAVE changed! $10/hr.....amazing!!
Thanks for the additional info and again, no offense intended.

Really looking forward to this thread and seeing what you end up with.

Regards,
Scott

Sierra Victor wrote:Unfortunately, times HAVE changed! $10/hr.....amazing!!
Thanks for the additional info and again, no offense intended.

That $10/hr is worth about $60/hr today. Can anyone even rent a 150? I wonder what a similarly equipped plane would go for? Double?

150's were up to $15/hr in 1989 and the instructor was $18. 172 or Piper Warrior was $35/hr. Instructors probably don't get paid much more than that today. Hmmm...

in 94 the 152 was 43 hr wet and instructor was 25 hr. Same plane a few years ago when the flight school closed up was 143 hr and 35 hr for instructor.

I learned buying used that people normally have a major emotional attachment to the plane, especially if your looking at a one owner plane and it has been his baby for 40 yrs... a little extra time talking to the guy and giving him a warm fuzzy that you have great plans for the plane and are not planning on going out and beating the shit out of his hangar queen and he is a lot more apt to give you a better deal..

A friend built a bushmaster in the 70s. It is a beautiful bird that flys like a wet dream that was first flown in 77 or 78 and has been on floats its whole life since he built the plane... total time on it is under 300 hrs. He is getting up in years and decided that its time to sell it. He had a guy lined up with cash to buy it and when the guy showed up at the hangar and started telling him his plans for the plane, my buddy just walked him out the door and said that he had decided not to sell it to him.. even with the full cash asking price being waved in his face.

Welcome to the forum, and best of luck with your flying goals.
My thought is that you could compare all the options under consideration, and probably get to right-seat each of them, by showing up at the Johnson Creek BCP fly-in. (Which is actually going to be someplace else this year- Gravelly Valley maybe??)
The point being, one stop shopping to view all the options under identical conditions, talk face to face with multiple owners and pilots of each, compare numerous mods and options first-hand, and possibly get some flight time in each.
As has been said, this community is a remarkable resource.
Cheers,
-DP

denalipilot wrote:Welcome to the forum, and best of luck with your flying goals.
My thought is that you could compare all the options under consideration, and probably get to right-seat each of them, by showing up at the Johnson Creek BCP fly-in. (Which is actually going to be someplace else this year- Gravelly Valley maybe??)
The point being, one stop shopping to view all the options under identical conditions, talk face to face with multiple owners and pilots of each, compare numerous mods and options first-hand, and possibly get some flight time in each.
As has been said, this community is a remarkable resource.
Cheers,
-DP

That's a great idea!