New pilot here, had my check ride on 2021-09-24. I've been mostly lurking and participating a bit here for over a year.

My PPL helped me learn how to fly the plane but flying "in the real world" has been helping me learn how to fly the plane even more. For example, I practiced slow flight with a CFI and solo, but it wasn't until I thought to myself what if I want to go a bit slower over these hills? did I realized yeah, I can just slow up a bit, add a notch of flaps, and make the world go by underneath me a bit slower. It appears that practicing "slower" flight can help me learn how to control the plane better both while just enjoying the world going by but also during landing.

Anyway, I know that I don't know much about flying, but I've really been enjoying more of seeing things from a different perspective and simply flying at various speeds in different configurations. Very neat.

I've been spending time flying over non-flat terrain (flat terrain being pretty much all I did during my PPL) but have also been getting more time with a CFI (for professional instruction) along with time with another BCP member with boatloads of experience (thanks Mike! we should do that again sometime soon). Additionally, I've just been flying on my own, too, practicing and applying stuff I learned during my PPL, here, and from other sources.

Those hills just north of Bozeman have some seriously steep canyons. They look so innocuous from the ground:



Seeing someone with a sheep wagon and a private tennis court is definitely a weird thing:

Yesterday, instead of flying just locally, I wanted to go somewhere so I flew over to check out a new-ish (2012, I think?) backcountry strip NE of White Sulphur Springs, MT. Although I wasn't planning on landing at the strip (I've only landed on grass once), I did want to see what the flight over was like and how the approach would go. I've read quite a bit about this strip, knew which directions are recommended for landings and takeoff, including that the RAF recommends that this strip is for experienced pilots. My intent was only to overfly and maybe do a low approach.

Winds aloft weren't crazy so I decided to fly over the ridge of the Bridger range (because why not? It's good practice in always identifying "the out" and finding the up-drafts). While this may seem like it's old hat to some here, having these views is pretty cool to a new pilot:

Looking south over the southern Bridgers:



At the ridge:



Just before the ridge, I caught an updraft that was providing >1000fpm lift. Seeing the VSI pegged high was a first for me. I ended up also experiencing some mountain waves, stuff I've read about and flown in with others as PIC. Surprising at times, but not unexpected. I'd catch the down portion, fly through it, then catch another up. Ended up with about three cycles before they stopped. Turns out the winds aloft, while not absolutely nuts, were pushing me on my heading at about 135kts ground speed (100KIAS), probably the fastest I've gone in a C172!

Left downwind on Russian Flat (M42) for R25:



I ended up probably taking a longer downwind than necessary to make sure I had plenty of room to turn base (there were some nearby hills) and my approach turned into an elongated turd but it set me up for a good landing, if I had wanted to land:

"Down wind, base, and final":



Made a low approach about 30' above the runway, winds were right down the strip. Sock wasn't straight out, but there was definitely some wind.

On the way back to Bozeman, the headwinds knocked my ground speed down to about 75kt. Yikes! Probably the slowest I've gone at "cruise" power settings in a 172!

Back over White Sulphur:



and back to Bozeman where tower was happy to let me land on the turf strip. During my primary training, I learned to land at 65kts. When I calculate 1.3*Vso from the POH, that puts my final approach at 55kts (light) and 65kts near gross. When I'm solo, I'm now aiming for landing at 55kt and when I'm with someone else, aiming for closer to 60kts. Yesterday, I think I had one of my best landings ever, and that was on the turf strip.

All in all, if this is only the start of my flying hobby, I'm excited to see where it could go in a few years! More learning, more reading, more experimenting (at altitude), more instruction, more experience. It's all pretty awesome.

Welcome allPrimes,

Low and slow sounds cool but sometimes is not cool. We want to store energy in airspeed which can be exchanged for altitude or maneuvering safely or we want to store energy in altitude which can be exchanged for airspeed and maneuvering safely.

It sounds like your CFI understands thermal and orographic energy. Very good. To your north in BC are glacial cut bath tub like valleys that do not provide reliable ridge lift like down here. Bruce Washtock and MTV, both near you, use slower cruise to reduce radius of turns in those kind of conditions. If you need to be slow for a canyon turn down here, cruise airspeed can be traded for altitude while slowing to reduce radius of turn. Once up wings level the turn (now slow) must be started by releasing all back pressure along with the bank. Once in a very steep turn the nose will go well down. This can be prevented with some back pressure only to prevent getting to Vne too fast. Not a wing loading back pressure, just taking a bit of the tuck out. That turn will come out 1.1 or 1.2 g but not significant load factor. You should be slow and there should be little pressure in the slight back elevator to reduce tuck. The 172 is pretty dirty but slicker airplanes will try to get back to cruise airspeed quickly and speed on to Vne if not watched. Anyway, cruise airspeed gives you zoom reserve in airspeed to start the safe turn process. Hanging out slow and then attempting a steep and level turn can be upsetting.

You have probably read my posts, but if you don't have my free ebooks email me [email protected] and I will attach them.

Thanks, Contact. I have your e-book and am making my way through it, albeit slowly.

I am decidedly NOT flying in canyons or really anything considered “tight.” I don’t have that experience yet and likely won’t for some time. That’s okay, flying above stuff is okay for me

Re: “low amd slow,” when I say “low” I mean about 1k-1.5k’ above the ground. Slow is about 75KIAS which is also Vy in the 172 I fly. Any faster and I let my altitude AGL increase a bit

I’m not dumb or much of a risk taker, unless it’s a calculated risk. A statistician, I take probabilities very seriously! I also know I’m approaching the new pilot “danger zone, sitting at close to 100hrs. I know my limitations and I respect the saying about there being no “old, bold, pilots.” I want to be one of the old ones, with a long flying career. I know enough to know I don’t know much which is why I’m conservative (I think) and why I seek out the experience of others and try new things with A LOT of air underneath me, like level turns at 75kt and letting the nose drop in a turn (“energy management” turn, I think you’d call it).

Anyway, lovely flight to KDLN this afternoon, enjoying some new-to-me scenery.

One of the reasons for caution at Russian Flat is it’s kinda (mostly) a one way strip. So that nice headwind on landing may become a serious tailwind on takeoff, and the DA is almost always high there.

Good for you for getting out and carefully looking the country over!

MTV

I second what MTV says Russian Flat is basically one way. After I got my PPL I then landed every public use airport in Montana to get out and about and learn a few things. I saved most of the mountain strips for the last half. Did Schafer Meadows as the best for last. Then Russian opened up so I figured I better hit that. Had about 700 hours at the time. Pulled in to Russian with what looked like a good 10 knot wind right down the runway. Great. Come in to land and over the threshold it appears I am moving really fast, glance at the sock and now I have 10-15 on the tail. Time for a go around headed directly for a fast approaching mountain uphill. Got real lucky that day clearing the trees by 50 feet on the turn back east. I made 2 other attempts at that strip before eventually landing there. From the air it does not look all that bad but the winds in there have always been tricky. I would only land there if it was dead calm and taking off to the west uphill I would not attempt unless you got lots of HP. Stay safe.

Coyote wrote:After I got my PPL I then landed every public use airport in Montana to get out and about and learn a few things. I saved most of the mountain strips for the last half.

How long did this take you? Sounds like it was a fun project, a great way to see parts of the state you otherwise might not be able to, and learn a lot in the process. What were your biggest takeaways? I had thoughts of doing something similar, starting out with paved, public use strips within 25nm of Bozeman, then 50nm, and growing the radius periodically, but quickly learned that there weren't many strips within 25nm or even 50nm, and I had already landed at most of them even before finishing my PPL.

Coyote wrote:Pulled in to Russian with what looked like a good 10 knot wind right down the runway. Great. Come in to land and over the threshold it appears I am moving really fast, glance at the sock and now I have 10-15 on the tail. Time for a go around headed directly for a fast approaching mountain uphill. Got real lucky that day clearing the trees by 50 feet on the turn back east. I made 2 other attempts at that strip before eventually landing there. From the air it does not look all that bad but the winds in there have always been tricky. I would only land there if it was dead calm and taking off to the west uphill I would not attempt unless you got lots of HP.

Although my intent was not to land at Russian Flat the other day, I had a similar experience. At the east end, wind was screaming straight down runway. I stayed well above the tops of the trees and just did a quick pass (with zoom reserve!) but noticed at the west end of the strip, the sock was straight out perpendicular to the runway. Seems a bit creepy. I'll wait to land there until after I have more experience and can go with someone else who's been there.

Coyote wrote:Stay safe.

This is the plan. Not sure where in Montana you are but if you ever find yourself in Bozeman, I'm always interested in connecting with people with similar interests.

I think it took me about a year and a half or maybe 2. There are about 100 public use airports. It was a fantastic learning experience. I did it all in my 170 at the time based here in Billings which being centrally located was helpful. Flying to airports within 50 miles is no big deal because the weather is generally the same and not a worry and you always know in the back of your head that you can always just run home if you are uncomfortable. Venturing further will introduce you to changing weather, different airports like class Charlie Billings and the TRSA in Great Falls. You can get some VFR flight following if you are high enough and you can file some flight plans or even talk to flight sercvice. If your goal is to hit every airport and you arrive at one far from home and there is a crosswind you don't like you will test your skills and land so you don't have to return. Found some really cool places in Montana I had no idea about. There will be camping in the wilderness, staying in pilot lounges or hotels. Some really interesting airport cars to experience. Bring a fishing rod along as I caught quite a few fish along the way. I would recommend starting out in the eastern half of the state without the mountains but be prepared for wind. Then venture into the mountains saving the most difficult for last. After I did all that I did Oshkosh which was fantastic. Oh by the way it eventually took me a total of 4 attempts to bag Russian Flat because turbulence was a constant problem. Now I have a supercub and my log book says mostly from KBIl to Dirt or Gravel. I rarely land at airports anymore.

Coyote wrote:I think it took me about a year and a half or maybe 2. There are about 100 public use airports. It was a fantastic learning experience. I did it all in my 170 at the time based here in Billings which being centrally located was helpful. Flying to airports within 50 miles is no big deal because the weather is generally the same and not a worry and you always know in the back of your head that you can always just run home if you are uncomfortable. Venturing further will introduce you to changing weather, different airports like class Charlie Billings and the TRSA in Great Falls. You can get some VFR flight following if you are high enough and you can file some flight plans or even talk to flight sercvice. If your goal is to hit every airport and you arrive at one far from home and there is a crosswind you don't like you will test your skills and land so you don't have to return. Found some really cool places in Montana I had no idea about. There will be camping in the wilderness, staying in pilot lounges or hotels. Some really interesting airport cars to experience. Bring a fishing rod along as I caught quite a few fish along the way. I would recommend starting out in the eastern half of the state without the mountains but be prepared for wind. Then venture into the mountains saving the most difficult for last. After I did all that I did Oshkosh which was fantastic. Oh by the way it eventually took me a total of 4 attempts to bag Russian Flat because turbulence was a constant problem. Now I have a supercub and my log book says mostly from KBIl to Dirt or Gravel. I rarely land at airports anymore.

Flying into airports within 25 then 50 miles is really about just gaining more experience. That said, I kind of blew that idea out of the water recently when the fiancé and I flew to Conrad on Sunday to visit her dad. Had a chance to talk to FSS and the Great Falls TRSA up and back. Had a great time flying over the Smith river, something that my partner had expressed an interest in. Other than the super AWOS being out at S01 and having some STOUT winds screaming straight down the runway (24026G32), it was no big deal.

My understanding is that flying through the winter might be challenging in SW Montana but I'm going to try and maintain my twice/week flight. Might have to limit the distances then pick things up later in winter and early spring, but I do like the idea of hitting all of the public use strips. And, if you have a yen to have a new guy tag along on any of your flights, I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone else: I'm happy to split costs and buy dinner!

Winter flying is some of the best but it takes a lot of work and dedication. My engine is constantly on a preheater so ready to go at any time. I shovel snow to no end making sure I can fly when I get the itch. Usually after a cold front blows in it is really good flying so you have to be prepared to fly at 10 below. I shoot coyotes mostly through the winter so there is a good excuse for me to go out. Some say it is better than sex and I might have to agree. It can be magical. I remember an overflight of Yellowstone one time that was unbelievable. Lots of survival info on this site and you should be prepared. I tell friends that don't fly, that, if my engine quit out there hunting yotes I probably would land successfully and then die from hypothermia. It is all about being prepared. Make sure your plane is in good shape. If your every coming over to KBIL PM me or call six nine eight 5004 Steve