I bought my 185 last summer and since then I have had bushwheel envy!

Just ordered a set of 29"ABW. Thanks to Mountainmatt and his video it was easy for me to break the news to my better half!

I am so friggen excited I can't wait to put them on and explore new areas of the country!!!


Kevin

I have flown the 31" and really adore them! Let's see a picture when you get them installed?

Glad you joined the club!

Does anyone have any experience with 26 inch bush tires on a 180. I'm only landing rough grass strips, no rocky sand bars and would like to keep the speed up. I had some 31 which were a little over kill for what I'm doing.

Congrats on the 31s though. They sure do make the 180 a proud bird........

Thx

Sweet!!!!!!! Post pics when u get em on!

180Lamb the 29's are the way to go, but 26's will do the job for what ur talkin bout n better than 8.50's. I'm fixin to go from 29's to 31's but I ride on lots of rough stuff and had problems with the nylon cord in 29s, the 31's have Kevlar and although less gross weight are stouter as far as the cord is concerned.

Skaly,

What were the issues with the 29" Airhawks (I assume they were Airhawks)

I have been contemplating 29s, but my home base has lots of pavement and long taxiways. I know I would chew thru ABWs pretty quick. The "buffed" Airhawks seemed like a good way to go bigger (from 8.5x10's) but still keep the tread life.

Thoughts?

Most 180 drivers locally like the 29" bushwheels. I've heard complaints of gear oscillation and super cub cruising speeds with 31"s. I had 26" bushwheels on mine last fall and only found myself wanting a larger "squishier" tire a few times. It's all about mission profile and trade offs in a 180/185. I can tell you that a 180/185 seems to wear down bushwheels faster on pavement than other a/c types. I assume this is due to outward pressure from the gear. Swapped my 26" out for 29" airhawks this week. Will provide a pirep soon.

Jeremy

The Scout MLG is very stable with 31" tires. In fact all STCs and TCDS gear are very stable: 2100As, C3100As, 31136.R, 8.5s. Never an issue with vibes, shimming, etc. Except the ABI 3600 tail wheel purchased (from ABI's previous owner) about (4) years. I was told the spring needed redesign and it may become available. It was a pain in the tail.

Alaskabound wrote:Most 180 drivers locally like the 29" bushwheels. I've heard complaints of gear oscillation and super cub cruising speeds with 31"s. I had 26" bushwheels on mine last fall and only found myself wanting a larger "squishier" tire a few times. It's all about mission profile and trade offs in a 180/185. I can tell you that a 180/185 seems to wear down bushwheels faster on pavement than other a/c types. I assume this is due to outward pressure from the gear. Swapped my 26" out for 29" airhawks this week. Will provide a pirep soon.

Jeremy

Jeremy, just curious why you went with 29" airhawks instead of 29" bushwheels? Im looking at bigger tires for my 180, but I was assuming that the gross weight limitation of the airhawks was too low, and that ABWs were required. Looking forward to your pirep.

David

A1Skinner wrote:

Alaskabound wrote:Most 180 drivers locally like the 29" bushwheels. I've heard complaints of gear oscillation and super cub cruising speeds with 31"s. I had 26" bushwheels on mine last fall and only found myself wanting a larger "squishier" tire a few times. It's all about mission profile and trade offs in a 180/185. I can tell you that a 180/185 seems to wear down bushwheels faster on pavement than other a/c types. I assume this is due to outward pressure from the gear. Swapped my 26" out for 29" airhawks this week. Will provide a pirep soon.

Jeremy

Jeremy, just curious why you went with 29" airhawks instead of 29" bushwheels? Im looking at bigger tires for my 180, but I was assuming that the gross weight limitation of the airhawks was too low, and that ABWs were required. Looking forward to your pirep.

David

David

The 29" air hawks (not to be confused with airstreaks) actually have a higher load capacity than the ABW 29's. I decided to go this direction because of the increase wear I have seen with ABW's on large cessnas that frequent pavement. I live on a grass strip, but my mission profile for the 180 finds me landing on pavement and hard pack gravel (loaded near gross) frequently. I wanted a tire that was a little tougher on hard stuff and cheaper to replace. I don't intend on getting into any rough off airport stuff in the 180 (I have a cub for that) but do intend on beach and gravel bar landings. The 29" airhawks ( same height as 26" ABW's but noticeably wider) mounted on ABW 10x10 wheels seemed like a good compromise. So far only gravel strip landings, but there seems to be little difference from my 26" ABW's. Hoping to do some gravel bar and beach stuff this weekend. So far so good!

Bigrenna, I was referring to the 29" ABW. The issue was with divots appearing in the tire where the plies come together. Bushwheels warrantied em and I'm on my second set now. I probly shouldn't have said anything, apparently it is not that common. However, it happened to the second set I have now too and they warrantied those as well n sent me a set of 31's for the difference in price. This was all before they sold to airframes. Got to keep the 29's the second time and am
still running them till I get around to swapping.

As far as pavement with ABW's I bought the extra lay of rubber on the wear portion on my 2nd set of 29's cause they see alot of gravel, and this year had to do alot of pavement. So far they are not wearing much at all. Put this set on in July I think and after a few hundred hours n hundreds of gravel n pavement landings they still look pretty new IMO. I'm careful not to turn sharp as that seems to wear them out the fastest. My first set didnt see a ton of pavement but had around 700-800 hours and thousands of gravel landings. They had worn but were still in good shape. Where we ranch it's all volcanic rock that is damn sharp, so I am actually quite impressed with the wear on the ABW, we go through tires on our ATVs n trucks like crazy.The only reason the first 29s got retired was cause the ply failure, wear wise they had lots of life left.

FWIW my 8.50X6 I started out with wore out really fast, they had around three quarters tread when I got em and were bald in a year...might have had alot to do with the fact I was learning to fly though haha

I'm wondering what speed loss y'all are seeing between 29s n 31 ABW. I lost 8-10mph when I went from 8.50X6 to 29 ABW, got it back with a bigger motor n cruise at 150mph at our home base at 5000'msl and about 145mph at sea level. Our cub on 31s did 90-95mph last I checked but whose counting in a cub

Right, thats makes sense Jeremy. I didn't read your post right and thinking about the airstreaks, not the airhawks. I have been debating between the hawks and ABWs, but my plane is just personal use and some work on the farm. Not usually at gross, and landing lots of tilled fields and such, so im thinking of going with ABWs.

bigrenna wrote:...I have been contemplating 29s, but my home base has lots of pavement and long taxiways. I know I would chew thru ABWs pretty quick. The "buffed" Airhawks seemed like a good way to go bigger (from 8.5x10's) but still keep the tread life.

Thoughts?

Greg, I've been running 29" ABWs for awhile now, made maybe 30 pavement landings and haven't seen any noticeable wear. Like Luke I ordered them with extra rubber where Cessna's tend to wear. I love the tires but picked up a 15mph penalty over the 26" Goodyears. I'm about to pull the 29's and put the 26's back on for the following reasons:

1. Over the next few months I've got a number of long trips planned and I want my 15mph back for those. Plus I won't care about landing on pavement.

2. Now that I've got the SQ-2 the likelihood of doing serious off-airport stuff with the 185 is significantly reduced. She will continue to see lots of back country strips but the 26's are more then adequate for those.

Next year my wife and I will take the 185 up and tour Alaska, will probably put the 29's back on for that trip so I can play off airport more.

Phil if u need someone to babysit the SQ2 while ur in Alaska u know who to call, seriously I won't mind at all

The buffed 29 x 11 x 10 tires work fine on a 185 or a 180. I've only used the Gar Aero adapters on the wheels with these tires, but those work fine if you can get them field approved. The better choice now would be the Bushwheels 10 inch wheels and discs.

The only down side to these tires I ever saw is that they are heavy. Even after being buffed down. But, they are pretty bullet proof tires...still a lot of rubber on there, even after buffed.

One of the problems with Alaska Bushwheels on any airplane with spring steel gear is that the gear flexes on several different axes and that varies with loads as well. And, that "squirming" motion is pretty much what Bushwheels don't like on pavement.

If I were running a 180 or 185 and wanted big tires, I'd probably go with a set of these. I've flown 185s on Bushweels a good bit as well, but I wasn't buying the tires. They are truly wonderful tires, and they squish out a LOT more than the 29 x 11 x 10 tires, so they roll over rocks, etc much better.

They all work, depending on your mission and your bank account.

MTV

mtv wrote:The buffed 29 x 11 x 10 tires work fine on a 185 or a 180. I've only used the Gar Aero adapters on the wheels with these tires, but those work fine if you can get them field approved. The better choice now would be the Bushwheels 10 inch wheels and discs.

The only down side to these tires I ever saw is that they are heavy. Even after being buffed down. But, they are pretty bullet proof tires...still a lot of rubber on there, even after buffed.

One of the problems with Alaska Bushwheels on any airplane with spring steel gear is that the gear flexes on several different axes and that varies with loads as well. And, that "squirming" motion is pretty much what Bushwheels don't like on pavement.

If I were running a 180 or 185 and wanted big tires, I'd probably go with a set of these. I've flown 185s on Bushweels a good bit as well, but I wasn't buying the tires. They are truly wonderful tires, and they squish out a LOT more than the 29 x 11 x 10 tires, so they roll over rocks, etc much better.

They all work, depending on your mission and your bank account.

MTV

So you'd go with the buffed 29X11X10s or the ABWs? I would think the ABWs squish a lot more then the 29x11x10s. I'm thinking thats what you were trying to say Mike?

ABWs n 29X11x10 are comparing apples n oranges. The ABW give a plane air ride shocks and save the airframe from a ton of abuse if landing on rough stuff. If it saved me $2000 a year having 29X11X10 instead of ABW it would still be an easy choice for me, ABW are just that much better. Anyone checked the cost of Cessna parts lately, shock absorbion is the whole deal with ABW to me, we are talking about 50-60+ year old airplanes here, give them all the help they can get if ur an off airport flyer.

Even on somewhat improved grass strips I thought were pretty smooth with Bushwheels, I've been shocked how rough they were with the 29X11X10 or 8.50s. It's night and day.

If it was a choice between 8.50s n 29X11X10 I'd go with the 8.50s for what I do, because with neither of them would I continue to land on the moderately to really rough stuff. Now if it was someone else's plane I was getting paid to fly n they paid the maintenance bills n told me to go for it, well that's a different story I guess...

Skalywag wrote:ABWs n 29X11x10 are comparing apples n oranges. The ABW give a plane air ride shocks and save the airframe from a ton of abuse if landing on rough stuff. If it saved me $2000 a year having 29X11X10 instead of ABW it would still be an easy choice for me, ABW are just that much better. Anyone checked the cost of Cessna parts lately, shock absorbion is the whole deal with ABW to me, we are talking about 50-60+ year old airplanes here, give them all the help they can get if ur an off airport flyer.

Even on somewhat improved grass strips I thought were pretty smooth with Bushwheels, I've been shocked how rough they were with the 29X11X10 or 8.50s. It's night and day.

If it was a choice between 8.50s n 29X11X10 I'd go with the 8.50s for what I do, because with neither of them would I continue to land on the moderately to really rough stuff. Now if it was someone else's plane I was getting paid to fly n they paid the maintenance bills n told me to go for it, well that's a different story I guess...

As I noted it all depends on your mission!! Should I repeat that a couple dozen times?

I've landed in stuff it's tough to walk in with the 29 x 11 x 10 tires.....but this was beaches and soft stuff....not very rough, but lots of floatation needed. They worked well.

But, as you note, if you're landing in rock piles with BIG rocks, there is no question the Bushwheels are a far better choice. Any size Bushwheels are a better choice, but the bigger and squishier, the better. As others have noted, I think the 29 inch ABW is a good choice for the Cessnas.

Now, that said, frankly, the vast majority of Bushwheel wearing airplanes land exclusively at airports......and occasionally a "backcountry" airport or two.

You are obviously the exception to that statement, and there's little doubt that the Bushwheels are the best choice for you. You're right there is a big difference in the performance of the tires in their element.

As to damage to airframes from landings, I hate to break this to you, but if you really are landing in places that are as rough as you say, there's a good chance you're going to damage the airframe in any case, regardless of the tires you're running. It's kind of like four wheel drive.....it can let you get in REALLY deep before you get stuck, or break something. And, tires only go so far in protecting the airframe......

Nothing wrong with that...please don't take that as suggesting a condemnation--it's your plane and your checkbook. These things will land in some pretty amazing stuff, indeed. But, like all off airport operations, you have to go into the operation with the understanding that at some point, you have a really good shot at damaging or destroying the airplane....that's the nature of the beast.

Most folks aren't going to get in that deep, but a 29 x 11 x 10 tire will roll right over a gopher hole that's strategically located in a backcountry strip. And THAT can save a lot of damage to the airframe. 99 % of the time, an 8.50 x 6.00 tire would have worked fine on that strip....till you get unlucky that once. So, it's all a matter of degree.

But, again, it's all about the mission, and the 29 x 11 x10 tires work VERY well in a variety of challenging environments. In my case, about 60% of landings were on pavement, but the rest were rough strips and gravel bars.

You're correct that the Bushwheels absorb a lot of abuse, but they really don't like pavement, and they are incredibly expensive. I would respectfully note that ABW went to a great deal of expense and time to engineer, develop and STC their ten inch wheels for these airplanes, just so they could run the 29 x 11 x 10 tires......wonder why these pretty smart guys who sell those Bushwheels felt there was also a niche for these tires?

Oh, yeah, I forgot, it's also a lot about the "cool" factor. And, again, there's nothing wrong with that. Lots of big tires never leave the pavement, but then again, lots of airplanes never leave the hangar. So what?

Choose what works for you, but there's a lot of places where the 29 x 11 x 10 tires will do the job safely and efficiently, without contributing to damage to the airframe. It only takes one overzealous rodent to ruin your day and your plane.......

It's all about the mission.

MTV

No doubt MTV, very good points, especially the gopher hole one. I agree with everything ur sayin, just makin the case about the shock absorption difference between the two as that is the most important one to me. I don't take my 180 to crazy places too often but do alot of day in day out on moderately rough stuff and the ABW are worth their weight in the long run for the cushion they provide. I see a fair amount of folks running their ABW's pumped up to where they don't even pooch, no point in havin em if not gonna run em 10psi or less IMO on a 180/185 size plane n considerably less on cub size planes. I've heard guys sayin they should look like a chipmunk with its cheeks full, that's a good way to put it

Also, if anyone is actually flyin in places that Bushwheels were intended for the baby bush is an important part of the package. We have the Scott on our cub and although it's a great tailwheel, the baby bush is a huge difference and rides really really nice taxing around.

Here's my thoughts and where I'm at with a 185 (for 180lambs benefit) - I'm restricted to 29"s anyway but I'll probably go the 26"s in ABW'S, presently I'm on stone throwing 8:50's and already have the double pucks. The reason; I had 31"s on my Maule and lost a whole bunch of speed that I don't want to repeat with the 185. There was nowhere I landed with the 31"s and got out and said "wow I'm glad I had 31"s cause there's no way I would land here with 26"s". So I think the chance of me saying that between the allowable 29"s and 26"s is even less. Im not even sure how you identify what each tyre will get away with in terms of 'rough' but I think if I was sussing out a LZ and thought my 26's were marginal but I'd definitely get in with 29's then I'd already be on the ground walking it! In which case move a few rocks and baby melons and tidy it up. Like stated above I reckon the huge advantage of the ABW's is their "squishy ness" or ability to absorb the rough stuff - for this reason alone I would think the 26"ABW'S would be ahead of the competition if not in size but in rough performance. So I'm going smaller but staying with the performance of the ABW's.
As stated previously its all about mission and 'horses for courses'

That said if anyone has 'grown out' of a good pair of 26"s feel free to pm me

Congrats Yukoner, you're going to love them!