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Newbie Skywagon driver

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Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:49 pm

Newbie Skywagon driver

Howdy folks, Brian Denk here from Mid Valley Airpark in Los Lunas, New Mexico. I'm sure enjoying this website and my 'wagon after owning it for only 9 months. What a great airplane! I finally got up the gumption to land off-airport yesterday (yeah I know..what a weenie). Who needs pavement?!? I'm now hooked. I must now soil the underbelly of the airplane with dirt/mud/cow chips on a regular basis.

So, anyway, I look forward to sharing, and learning from those with much more wisdom in airplane boondockin' than I have.

Happy New Year's to all.
akroguy offline
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'57 C-180
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Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:28 pm

Welcome akroguy, congrats on the new airplane! There are a lot of great people here with lots to share. First thing though, you need to upload pictures of your ride.
hooznext offline
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Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 pm

Hi akroguy, welcome to the site.

That's a great looking 180, inside and out. 1957 was the era of nice, lightweight 180s, wasn't it? Should be just the ticket for off-airport work if it hasn't been weighted down with creature comforts over the years. Do you get AOPA Pilot magazine? Last month the back page featured Lowell Thomas Jr. He and his wife flew their stock C180 from France, through West Africa, through the Middle East into Asia, all back in the '50s. Several of the places they landed had never seen an airplane before, and lots had marginal gravel strips, at best. Lowell told me that he never felt that he needed anything larger than 8.50s for any of his C180 exploits. There's a book about that trip too, by the way- "Our Flight to Adventure." The plane still flies, as does the author.

Looks like you've got an anti-abrasion boot on the horiz stab already?

Thanks for the pics,

DP
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Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:33 pm

Thanks for the pics, very nice, very clean! How long did it take you to find it? I love to see planes like that, we have a real clean 170 and a 180 near me, I see them constantly at flyins, they are both just gorgeous, I just never found the owners yet. My wife gets a little jealous when I am near them.
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Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:44 pm

Thanks for the kind welcome, guys! I really am blessed to have found this airplane. It's got all the goodies I need, lacking only perhaps STOL wing cuff and/or VG's. It has only 2444 total hours, never on floats, always hangared. Empty weight 1640 lbs. The only bummer is that I had to sell my RV8 to afford it. THAT airplane just totally kicks butt and I built it too. It went to a nice home so it all worked out very well.

Lowell Thomas....neat guy! Neat story too. Gotta find that book! What a life he has led.

Yes, the anti-abrasion boots are on there. Now that I'm offroadin'...I'm gonna need them. We have plenty of rocks and dirt around here and not nearly enough grass.

Denali, eh? I might be visiting up there next summer....Delta Junction actually, south of Fairbanks. My brother in law lives there. I'm mighty tempted to fly Shrek up there...but the fuel costs....egads! I'm not sure my wife and young son could deal with that much time behind a piston engine.

Thanks again fellers.

Brian
akroguy offline
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Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:31 pm

Hey Akro, We're kind of neighbors! I live up in Santa Fe, though I occasionally get down to Los Lunas. I have a friend there with a C120.

Last time I was in LL I did a few touch n go's then went out to Alamo Navajo to try and land the strip there, but I couldn't find the blasted thing! I found a private strip that looked really sweet in the same area, but Alamo Navajo is.. non-existent.

It might be neat if we could organize a local fly in or meet up on a dirt strip somewhere.
Mister Willie offline
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Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:57 am

Mister Willie wrote:Hey Akro, We're kind of neighbors! I live up in Santa Fe, though I occasionally get down to Los Lunas. I have a friend there with a C120.

Last time I was in LL I did a few touch n go's then went out to Alamo Navajo to try and land the strip there, but I couldn't find the blasted thing! I found a private strip that looked really sweet in the same area, but Alamo Navajo is.. non-existent.

It might be neat if we could organize a local fly in or meet up on a dirt strip somewhere.


My neighbor across the street has a 120...same guy? Name is Keith Wilson. We flew together the other day...landed on a dirt road up east near the foothills of the Manzanos. He's got over a thousand hours in that 120 of his...after learning to fly in it as a kid, then rebuilding it after a storm mangled it. Now THAT is commitment.
akroguy offline
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Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:38 am

Akro, glad to have another Skywagon owner here. If we could get some more, we might be able to over shadow the Maule drivers!! Don't believe everything that is said here. Denalipilot's comments on doing without "creature comforts" is definitely wrong! He probably drinks warm beer to save on carrying ice, primitive. My idea of saving weight is pouring your wine into a plastic container instead of the heavy glass bottle it came in. And finally, how can you possibly fly trips over 2,000 miles as the crow, er Skywagon, flies without an autopilot??

All kidding aside, this is one of the most active and fun forums on the web. A nice diversity of people and planes. Ford
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Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:28 am

Hello Akroguy, Good to have you flying with us. I live in Durango Co. about 153 nm north of you. We are not to far from one another. I also fly with another active BCPilot who has a 1956 C-180 "Shortfielder"

He is planning a breakfast trip heading south towards you in the next 2 weeks or so. I will likely be flying my airmobile and Shortfielder in his 180 and his dad may fly also in his own C-180. It would be cool if we could get together and fly.

I will be camping and dirtstrip flying in the 4 corners area a bunch this coming spring and summer. UTAH is BADASS for Backcountry flying. If you are ever heading north give a call. Cell 313-231-9097 h:9707644256
Peter
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Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:50 am

Sweeet. We have basically two active 180 drivers at my home airpark...me and a neighbor's '59 with -520 on board. We're dreaming of an Idaho trip next summer, but there's just too much "life" happening before then to really nail it down. I have a two month sabbatical coming that should coincide nicely. I'll have to auction off a kidney on Ebay to afford the gas I want to burn, but hey, I have another one on standby.

Peter (or anyone here), if you ever come down south, you can always stop in at Mid Valley (E98) for a cold one out of my hangar fridge. Avgas currently at $4.38 and mogas down the road a coupla miles. Just got my Mogas STC and boy am I glad.

Ford,
Heh, yeah, there are wide ranging views on how to properly configure a 180/185. I like comfort, but it usually means heavy and costly. So, I dress warmly, fly shorter legs and stay visual. My autopilot will be my son next to me. "See that mountain straight ahead in the distance? Fly towards it and wake me up before we smack into it."

That's a cheap autopilot. Except when it comes time for college. Then, I'm gonna pay. And pay.
akroguy offline
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'57 C-180
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ALL FUN
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Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:38 am

akroguy wrote:Thanks for the kind welcome, guys! I really am blessed to have found this airplane. It's got all the goodies I need, lacking only perhaps STOL wing cuff and/or VG's. It has only 2444 total


Well If it would help any on your trip North. I would put you up for the night at S49 Vale Oregon. I love that airplane of yours. I fly a 59 182 but have always liked the 180. Bob


Denali, eh? I might be visiting up there next summer....Delta Junction actually, south of Fairbanks. My brother in law lives there. I'm mighty tempted to fly Shrek up there...but the fuel costs....egads! I'm not sure my wife and young son could deal with that much time behind a piston engine.

Thanks again fellers.

Brian
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Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:55 pm

Interesting commentary, Bob. Nice quoting. :P
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Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:47 am

Motorcitymaule wrote:I will be camping and dirtstrip flying in the 4 corners area a bunch this coming spring and summer. UTAH is BADASS for Backcountry flying. If you are ever heading north give a call. Cell 313-231-9097 h:9707644256
Peter


MCM, I used to live in Durango. Married a girl from Dolores and get back to see the in-laws at Cortez often. We have a house near Saguache. I plan on flying Utah a bunch this spring. I'll look you up.

Akro, NICE plane... too nice. I'd be afraid to treat it rough. Bummer about the-8. I've also got an RV4 and don't think I could do without it! Welcome to the dirt.
Spinner offline
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Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:08 pm

Spinner,

I'm being gentle with the plane now, but that will wear off in time. I just want to get a year of prang-free experience... to stay off the insurance dude's radar for a while. Eventually, I'll have to show it who da man is.

When da wife isn't looking, of course. :roll:
akroguy offline
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'57 C-180
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ALL FUN
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Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Just curious as to what are you getting for fuel burn in your 180? I've got a chance to trade my 172 for an early 180 that has few hours on the engine. But I honestly don't think I can afford to put fuel in the thing.

Seems to be some pretty good prices on 180's now because of the high cost of fuel. Heck, I've been looking at Supercubs and a guy can get a real nice 180- for the same or even less money.

The only reason I am thinking of the 180 is all the kids are grown and out of the house and they are scattered across the US. I could get to them quicker in a 180 than either my 172 or my speed demon Champ. :lol:
Figuring 12-13 gl/ hr vs 8gl/hr. I would probably burn the same amount of fuel flying to see them only being able to travel faster in a 180.

Thanks,
Keith
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Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:58 pm

fuel burn

Howdy Keith,

I burn 13 an hour average at 23'' and 2300 rpm in my 55' 180 with the older Continental O-470-J. I get around 145 mph with 26'' goodyears and no mods to the airframe. I can loaf along at 17'' and 2100 rpm but the speed goes down to around 120 and fuel burn is around 11. This is also all at full rich without leaning.

You cant beat a good 180. I know a lot of people that have owned them for over 30 years and never saw the need to get any other airplane because it is so versatile.

Dave
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Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:05 pm

You're about dead on with your estimates. I burn 12gph and get an honest 145mph to maybe 150mph in smooth air, leaned out at 10,000'. Skywagons that exceed 150mph regularly, with big tires, no wheel pants or fairings are rare. If we could just get rid of the antenna farms sprouting off these things we'd probably gain a few knots right there.

My airplane has a high'ish time engine in it, but with new ECI cylinders. The bottom has 1300 hrs on it and is tight as a drum. It doesn't seep or leak anywhere. I'm going to fly it until oil consumption or analysis tells me otherwise. My prop is an 88" C203 seaplane prop, which is probably not the fastest prop by far, but pulls like a mule and rattles the windows at the airpark when I takeoff. :twisted:

I went from an RV-8 that burned 8gph at almost 200mph, so feeding what seems like a tankerload of fuel into the Skywagon was quite startling for me early on, but I've learned to just adapt. For long trips, we'll take a jet tube. For more sporting, flying-as-the-main-reason-we're-going type trips, we'll budget ahead to feed the 'wagon. I just got the autofuel STC so for local flying (95% of my missions anyway), I just throw in ten gallons of car gas for each flight (two, easily managed gas cans), and go tool around at reduced power and have a ball.

If you really want an economical traveling ship, get an RV! For the same money a Skywagon would cost you, you could find a very nice, low-time RV. It won't haul the freight like a Cessna, but if you're mostly flying solo or two-up, it's hard to beat. They're really magic carpets and cover ground in a big way.

Brian
akroguy offline
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'57 C-180
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88" prop
ALL FUN
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Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:25 pm

Thanks guys. I've had the 172 for 20 years and to ME it has been the very economical to own. I actually burn 7.2 gallons and hour at 105-110mph so if I got the 180 I would be burning 80% more fuel and only traveling 40% faster. Not sure if it would be worth it. Plus the more complex aircraft would be more expensive to maintain.
The other benefit to the 180 is that I could keep it at my farm strip whereas the 172 needs to be kept in town....27 miles away. :(

Decisions...decisions. I do love the looks of the early 180's!!!
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Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:10 pm

akroguy wrote:If you really want an economical traveling ship, get an RV! For the same money a Skywagon would cost you, you could find a very nice, low-time RV. It won't haul the freight like a Cessna, but if you're mostly flying solo or two-up, it's hard to beat. They're really magic carpets and cover ground in a big way.


Yep, I flew my RV4 this morning and cannot agree more. For those who have never flown one, an RV is an amazing aircraft. It does EVERYTHING well. XC fast; STOL; acro; economical. If you want an awesome plane and can't afford an Extra or Zivko or need to land short, a tandem RV is it.

Now, it won't do what my Maule will... very different missions. The Franklin powered Maules are a similar mix of desirable qualities rolled into a neat package.

Since everything aviation related is a compromise, the trick is to compromise as little as possible. The 180 is one of those packages. Can't say that about the Skyhawk.
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Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:45 pm

WWhunter wrote:......Plus the more complex aircraft would be more expensive to maintain.

Decisions...decisions. I do love the looks of the early 180's!!!


I wouldn't say the 180 is more complex than a Hawk. So, you have a constant speed prop and a bigger engine. No biggee. It's still a 100 series Cessna, with many of the same systems and part numbers. Don't sweat the maintainance. It's no biggee and maybe even easier; no nosewheel structure! Just think of never having to replace a shimmy dampener again. Oh the joy!

Yes indeed, the 50's Skywagon is a dead sexy machine....the fastback cabin sweeping cleanly into the wing..the jaunty, proud tail with trimming stabilizer....no weenie trim tabs for the Skywagon, no siree!

If the 'wagon turns your crank, go get one. Something about it just screams American Pride...a classic Cowboy's steed of the sky. Mine just turned golden 50....1957 was a true classic year just reeking of nostalgia for me. It was before I was born, but I'm a sentimental kinda guy. Who says flying and picking an airplane has to be all practical? Follow your heart and your checkbook will follow. :wink:
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