I'm recently transitioning for owning a bar/restaurant and would love to get out of this industry. As everyone always says, make your work something you love doing and you will feel like you never worked a day in your life. Luckily this has worked out for me up until now. Iam tired of selling alcohol and love to fly.

So my question is, if there are so few jobs and such low paying jobs in the airline industry, how do you guys fill your tanks to fly 200 plus hours a year? I have a 182 and will have a little nest egg once I sell the bar, but we all gotta have some income to maintain this ever increasingly expensive hobby we all have. How do we do it so that the bank account at least stays the same amount rather than constantly depleting? Anyone have any hints?

Working as a cfi and teaching students part 61 out of the 182 seems like the only way to make money. Already got the plane, love to fly, and would enjoy seeing others take on to something I already care so much about.

Wish I would have met u a few years back when I wanted out of the flying business and wanted to get into the bar and restaurant business. We could have made a deal
Got out of the flying business Still thinking about the Bar business Good luck finding free gas

Personally, I love doing something totally separate (crane service) from aviation to make the money to aviate. For one thing, if I ever for some reason lost my ticket for doing something stupid, it wouldn't impact what I do for a living. Conversely, if I tipped my crane over doing something stupid, I could go flying later that day (and take an aerial photo of the mishap). Not having all my eggs in one basket works for me.

Do I have a number for how many hours of crane work results in how many hours of flying time expenses? You bet, and it's pretty favorable as long as I ignore replacement and maintenance costs for both pieces of equipment, which I can easily do. About 6.5 hrs flying for one hour crane time

ington6 wrote:I'm recently transitioning for owning a bar/restaurant and would love to get out of this industry. As everyone always says, make your work something you love doing and you will feel like you never worked a day in your life. Luckily this has worked out for me up until now. Iam tired of selling alcohol and love to fly.

So my question is, if there are so few jobs and such low paying jobs in the airline industry, how do you guys fill your tanks to fly 200 plus hours a year? I have a 182 and will have a little nest egg once I sell the bar, but we all gotta have some income to maintain this ever increasingly expensive hobby we all have. How do we do it so that the bank account at least stays the same amount rather than constantly depleting? Anyone have any hints?

Working as a cfi and teaching students part 61 out of the 182 seems like the only way to make money. Already got the plane, love to fly, and would enjoy seeing others take on to something I already care so much about.

Well....

... some like me were just lucky. I had a traditional airline career that paid quite well. As a result I have a very nice airline retirement income. So those worries are behind me unless the country goes bust. Not to say that $6.00 per gallon gas hasn't cut into my flying. Sometimes I have to ask if it really is worth $72.00 per hour in gas alone to play around with the Maule. Owning it, insuring it, maintaining it, annuals, overhaul hourly unit cost, hanger rent, taxes....all told it cost us about $17,000.00 per year to fly it 100 hours. Plus we have a pretty good chunk of cash tied up in the value of the airplane.

Bottom line.... one needs a pretty good chuck of disposable income in order to own and operate their own airplane. Those who have disposable income spend it in lots of different ways. I know guys with boats, motorcycles, motorhomes, etc. who spend more on their toys than I do on our airplane. Say nothing about the fellow you see in a new Red Ford F-250, dual cab, 4X4 with about 400 h.p that lists for over $50,000.00 and gets 12 mpg at $4.00 per gallon. Don't even consider the big camper being towed behind his truck with a tricked out Jeep hooked to the camper.

Those who have the money for toys are just plain lucky. The average income in this country any more will barely feed a family of four. I'd say everyone who frequents this site....is pretty darn fortunate.

As for employment in aviation....there are some very nice paying corporate flying jobs. The fractional operator "NetJets" pays senior captains nearly $200,000.00 a year. The major airlines, while not paying as in previous generations.....still have captains who earn salaries in the top 5% of U.S. income brackets. Lots of major airline copilots earning well into 6 figures. The regional airlines? Well they are actually "contract carriers" to the major airlines, who do not have route systems of their own and were never intended to be career jobs, although senior captains can make a decent salary. Trying to fill the gas tanks as a CFI could be a real challenge however.

For most folks ...a business, career or profession outside of aviation is more likely to provide an income that will support expensive hobbies.

Have fun. Good luck.

Bob

All a matter of priorities.

Can't begin to tell you the number of Third World shithole pilot houses I lived in up in northwest Alaska when starting out. Can you spell "honey bucket," because there was no running water or sewer systems. And that wasn't the worse, it was my darling room-mates who acted like their mommies were still looking out after them. Meant having to get up an extra 30 minutes early each morning to mop up the vomit all over the bathroom floor so I could take a shower and get to work on time. And be the only one sober. First to fly out in the morning, and last plane in at the end of the day. Every day.

But, get your foot into the door and figure out if it's really what you want to do, and there will be a whole new, and huge world out there waiting for you. If that's what you really want to do!

Which brings up another different, but important point. I've seen lots of new guys show up for their first flying jobs all eager and raring to go, but with the expectation that flying for a living is going to be like a paid $100 hamburger run. It is NOT. It is an entirely different mind-set and discipline, and a whole lot of hard work. Weather's shitty, you gotta fly. It's dark and windy out, you gotta fly. You gotta pack a bag and live out of the airplane for the next month because the boss needs you there, you gotta fly.

Lot of folks quit soon after they start, when the reality sets in. Kind of tragic to see, but it's the old "be careful what you wish for."

Gump

I love flying. I have a pretty good feeling though that I would not enjoy doing it for a living. My job lets me do thing like enjoy this website when it's hailing outside, from the comfort of a heated or air conditioned office, which happens to be in my home, where the kit plane project calls to me from 50 feet away. There is seldom any negative association that I get with flying because I do it when I please rather than to bring in any income.

Also, have you seen what pro pilots make? It's a travesty. The guys who are flying around in brand new Cubcrafters machines or glossy Huskys are not pros, or if they are, they don't own them. They're making coin in another more lucrative industry, whatever that may be. It's a shame that the commercial aviation industry is both poor AND competitive, because it would be nice to know that the guy up in the cockpit of the regional CRJ who has my life in his hands is well paid.

It's my advice to find something else to do that you still can enjoy a little, but brings in more money. Then all that money can be spent on flying and flying related toys.

The exception is Patrol Guy. I think he has fun.

courierguy wrote:
Do I have a number for how many hours of crane work results in how many hours of flying time expenses? You bet, and it's pretty favorable as long as I ignore replacement and maintenance costs for both pieces of equipment, which I can easily do. About 6.5 hrs flying for one hour crane time

I like your way of looking at this. After Taxes and other deductions I am so far upside down from you it makes me want an LSA. It costs me 2+ hrs of work per flying hour, and thats just the gas. Maintenance comes from a separate account that is not allowed to have a conscience otherwise I'd never be able to fly.

My father has been flying for his "day job" in our 172, for 20+ years. The only problem he has is after flying all week, when the weekend comes, the last this he wants to do is get back into the "work" pane and go fly some where. It might be a good idea, to find something aviation related, but not flying. I love wrenching on planes, but I would rather bring my truck somewhere to get fixed. I have herd the same basic thing from a bunch of people.
Just some food for thought.

Most of us on the sight have other skills then flying. For some like me flying is a hobby. I fly out hunters in the fall
and fly out to work on remote cabins. I have a great income from my retirement. When I was working I had a job that payed quite well. And it let me retire at the age of 46 years old. I now have 3 planes a house of 2,750 sq. ft. and shop and my hangar. It all takes hard work and sacrifice. For some if its trying to make a living at something you like or love its not easy , but can be done. So set goals and strive to reach your goals, your rewards will be well worth the time and effort... For I do what I love....
Just my to cents

We don't. We fly someone else's airplanes, they fill the tanks, and we get to skim the scum off the top of the pond of the airline's revenue. I typically put $100 of avgas (12 gallons) in the 182 and cruise into Anchorage if I need more fuel, even then I usually just buy enough to make one more round trip to Anchorage rather than top off. I just got my 1984 Ford Escort running again with a choke cable that looks suspiciously like an old mixture cable from a PA-18. Only been at this same job since 2006!

I am a Sales Manager in the car business, and I have to say even in a bad economy the need to fly is a necessity just as much a hobby. I need to fly regularly (about 20+ a month or more) because it relaxes me. I feel great when I get to do it. If I were flying for someone else, that wouldn't be the case at all.

Long term plans are different. I love flying, I love the outdoors, I love Alaska in the summer time. The wife and I are saving like there is a tomorrow to buy a lodge one day and hope that we can at least break even.

Own the lodge to break even, live off the retirement and fly for fun!

ington6 asked:

I have a 182 and will have a little nest egg once I sell the bar, but we all gotta have some income to maintain this ever increasingly expensive hobby we all have. How do we do it so that the bank account at least stays the same amount rather than constantly depleting? Anyone have any hints?

I'll go ahead and say it. The way to make a small fortune in the aviation business is to start with a large one. Don't bother Zane, I'll kick my self off the forumn now for saying it.

Cessna 182, Flying for money, In my line of work that means hauling jumpers. By fixing and flying my airplanes either for flight instruction or skydiving I have been able to create equity in aircraft and property. I still drive a POS car and have a hard time finding money for joy flying when I want. By using the money I bring in on lifting the jumpers to make the airplanes perform better I get to build and fly what I consider hot rods. Contracting your airplane out on weekends to jump operations (you fly it) can bring in a good fist full of cash. The airplane will ask for it back and your abilities will decide how much you keep. If you have had to hang out at bars then skydivers wont be that much of change. My first 182, put on a sportsman stol, pulled the interior, took off the door, flew jumpers on weekends, took the money and rebuilt the engine and upgraded the panel, flew the next summer and purchased a nice interior, over the winter installed it and fixed the paint a little. Sold it and made a little money, bought a C-U206 and did it again. I am enjoying working on the planes and flying them.

That's exactly what I'm planning. I have 130 + jumps myself and have spent lots of time around the drop zone. already have a weight and balance for the 182 without seats, door ect. What is a normal rate to contact myself as pilot and the plane out for? I'm thinking a drop zone would love to have an extra plane on busy weekends. Twice the loads!

Zane wrote:The exception is Patrol Guy. I think he has fun.

Patrol Guy is wired to have fun, regardless of what he's doing. He'd have fun cleaning the garage. Talk to him about patrolling, and he'll tell you it's got some negatives. Some guys would wah-wah about the negatives, but John takes them in stride. His ability to keep a smile on his face while patrolling has more to do with his predisposition than the job itself.

You can find entry-level flying jobs that don't involve instructing. You won't make a lot of money (you'll likely make very little money!), you probably won't be near home, you'll probably be spending a lot of time in dumpy pilot housing, and, if you have the right attitude, you'll probably have the time of your life.

PA12_Pilot wrote:You can find entry-level flying jobs that don't involve instructing. You won't make a lot of money (you'll likely make very little money!), you probably won't be near home, you'll probably be spending a lot of time in dumpy pilot housing, and, if you have the right attitude, you'll probably have the time of your life.

Out of the mouths of babes...

That, gentlemen, is the truth!!! And the bottom line. I most always made enough money flying to live well, but I consistently make more down here with non-flying careers.

But, for balls to the wall fun, adventure, bragging rights, and several lifetimes worth of memories there is nothing can beat a flying an airplane stuffed to the gills into some shithole third world airstrip in crappy weather... And be getting paid to do it.

And do it for a while, racking up a 1000+ hours a year, you discover that you have learned how to be a pilot. Your flying changes in lots of subtle, and not so subtle ways, and you, corny as it sounds, feel lift and weight, and become one with the machine. That's the real magic part, and a very Zen thing.

And that's the part I miss the most.

Gump

I get $12-$14 dry per person to 10,500 agl and $16-18 dry per person to 13K agl. When Im flying and got everything dialed in my U206s bring in just over $200 per hour dry. One of my other pilots and poor load factors = $165 per hour dry. If the DZ is only running Tandems you can get a little more. A good stock 182 should do 8-10 seats per hour. With only 4 revenue seats available If you pay out for all the maint and pilot you will break even or loose money. Your 182 will need an oil cooler replaced, carb airbox rebuilt over and over again, cowl bowls repaired. The U206 gives you 2 extra seats to put dinner money in your pocket.

Let's say I pay for fuel, wouldn't doing an hourly contract rate be the easiest? That way whatever the tach says at the end of the day is the amount that I am owed for flying in my 182. This place only does tandems, what would a normal hourly rate be for pilot/182 to fly loads? Or is there some other easier way of billing out the dz? I was thinking about $150/ hour.

Sure straight by the hour works but Drop Zones divide the money by piecework, Packers, Instructors, even pilots by the load. If you give him a fixed cost per seat they see that they can make a buck and the better your airplane climbs and the better you fly the more you bring in per hour. Do it by the hour and then the DZ has some heavy weights, summer heat sets in, 1 cyl starts to make less power and now you can quickly cost them more than they bring in on Up Jumper slots and your the asshole milking them for all the money. If I told the DZ owner "I want $170 per hour dry for My 206" They would laugh. By the seat it works for me and Dzs Ive worked for. I keep making my planes faster, fly best power mixture which makes me climb faster and uses less fuel, and can decend at my own pace. The motivation is for me to provide the fastest climbing aircraft which they want.

Skydive206 wrote:Sure straight by the hour works but Drop Zones divide the money by piecework, Packers, Instructors, even pilots by the load. If you give him a fixed cost per seat they see that they can make a buck and the better your airplane climbs and the better you fly the more you bring in per hour. Do it by the hour and then the DZ has some heavy weights, summer heat sets in, 1 cyl starts to make less power and now you can quickly cost them more than they bring in on Up Jumper slots and your the asshole milking them for all the money. If I told the DZ owner "I want $170 per hour dry for My 206" They would laugh. By the seat it works for me and Dzs Ive worked for. I keep making my planes faster, fly best power mixture which makes me climb faster and uses less fuel, and can decend at my own pace. The motivation is for me to provide the fastest climbing aircraft which they want.

SKydive206, you have grabbed my attention. Assuming that I am newly minted commercial pilot with 500+ hours (next summer ) What is the best way to get a flying gig besides showing up at the DZ and asking? If a person owned their own 182 to fly as a contract pilot, is the insurance policy outrageous? I just found the dropzone website forum and am hoping to make some calls get a feel for where i might find a busy DZ to work. Hell, one DZ near me has a twin otter. I would be willing to Fly FREE even to get SIC time. dropping jumpers sounds a whole lot better than dragging rags, a lot less riskier too. What are your suggestions for me? thanks.