So I was glancing through 830 and saw that 25k damage thing

Got me to thinking

Say you rent a clapped out 150 from bubbas flying school and tire shopie

You taxi up to shut down and hit his old spittoon

Dents the prop and maybe hurts the engine

Say it’s looong past TBO, the prop could classify as serrated with all the erosion on it, it’s MAYBE core status

Would the damage be based on the value, or lack thereof, of the existing long in the tooth engine and prop, or for the price of a factory new firewall forward?


And no I didn’t break a junker 150, genuinely curious

I don't think taxi stuff counts. What is the requirement for a continental prop strike?? I would argue only the parts needing replacement from the prop strike be added to the 25,000. So you hit something as you taxi, happens every day. Replacing badly worn parts while the engine is apart is a good ideal but should not be included in the incident. Even if you report you did taxi into a spittoon and take your license. By the the time you get it back plane might not even be fixed. I surrendered my license for 3 mo once, came back in the mail no one really seams to care including insurance company. DENNY

DENNY wrote:I don't think taxi stuff counts. What is the requirement for a continental prop strike?? I would argue only the parts needing replacement from the prop strike be added to the 25,000. So you hit something as you taxi, happens every day. Replacing badly worn parts while the engine is apart is a good ideal but should not be included in the incident. Even if you report you did taxi into a spittoon and take your license. By the the time you get it back plane might not even be fixed. I surrendered my license for 3 mo once, came back in the mail no one really seams to care including insurance company. DENNY

So the damage cost would be to replace a near junker prop with a factory new one?

Or the value of the prop that hit said spittoon?

Taxi exemption aside

It would depend on the insurance policy, I think. Back when I could actually afford those planes under $10,000, I insured several at replacement hull value given the 7% inflation at that time. The insurance company always, no exception, just sent me a check without questioning how it had happened. Champ blown over on the ground $2500, Tri-Pacer a student turned over at night getting a main off the runway drop off at ABQ Sunport $6500, Colt the club president put down on aborted takeoff at GUP $4500, CallAir I cartwheeled at Fabens, Texas $12,500. All were totaled. All paid full hull as listed. They decided on the total loss. Some didn't look that bad and that was when fabric work was not unreasonable. I had a turned rod bearing cause separation with piston and rod completely destroy the GO-300 in my 175 on takeoff out of Santa Fe, NM. I landed on a road without damage to the hull and insurance paid nothing. There was one tree out there and I thought about it, but I am a moral guy.

contactflying wrote:It would depend on the insurance policy, I think. Back when I could actually afford those planes under $10,000, I insured several at replacement hull value given the 7% inflation at that time. The insurance company always, no exception, just sent me a check without questioning how it had happened. Champ blown over on the ground $2500, Tri-Pacer a student turned over at night getting a main off the runway drop off at ABQ Sunport $6500, Colt the club president put down on aborted takeoff at GUP $4500, CallAir I cartwheeled at Fabens, Texas $12,500. All were totaled. All paid full hull as listed. They decided on the total loss. Some didn't look that bad and that was when fabric work was not unreasonable. I had a turned rod bearing cause separation with piston and rod completely destroy the GO-300 in my 175 on takeoff out of Santa Fe, NM. I landed on a road without damage to the hull and insurance paid nothing. There was one tree out there and I thought about it, but I am a moral guy.

Interesting if it’s off insured value

In many courts if you vehicle/carpet/fridge/whatever gets destroyed you don’t get the cost of a 2022 carpet if a tenant destroyed your 10yr old probably should have been replaced a tenant ago carpet, you get what a value your 10yr old well worn carpet would have been worth

When you take out an AVIATION insurance policy, you and the insurer agree on a “stated value”. Total the plane, and that’s what you get, minus deductible. Which is why you never want to low ball stated value. After total, insurer owns plane, and will sell to highest bidder.

As to question of prop strike-insurer will pay cost of prop strike inspection. And damage repair. If prop is repairable, they’ll pay for that. If not they should replace it…may or may not be with a new prop.

MTV

mtv wrote:When you take out an AVIATION insurance policy, you and the insurer agree on a “stated value”. Total the plane, and that’s what you get, minus deductible. Which is why you never want to low ball stated value. After total, insurer owns plane, and will sell to highest bidder.

As to question of prop strike-insurer will pay cost of prop strike inspection. And damage repair. If prop is repairable, they’ll pay for that. If not they should replace it…may or may not be with a new prop.

MTV

I get the insurance deal

Question is per NTSB 830 what value do they use for the damage?

Do they just go off whatever you can squeeze the insurance for? Or the estimated value of the actual damaged part?

If that makes sense

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:When you take out an AVIATION insurance policy, you and the insurer agree on a “stated value”. Total the plane, and that’s what you get, minus deductible. Which is why you never want to low ball stated value. After total, insurer owns plane, and will sell to highest bidder.

As to question of prop strike-insurer will pay cost of prop strike inspection. And damage repair. If prop is repairable, they’ll pay for that. If not they should replace it…may or may not be with a new prop.

MTV

I get the insurance deal

Question is per NTSB 830 what value do they use for the damage?

Do they just go off whatever you can squeeze the insurance for? Or the estimated value of the actual damaged part?

If that makes sense

Not really. Not sure what NTSB 830 has to do with what insurance pays.

Are you asking how they determine “totalled”?

MTV

For the $25,000 mention, are you referencing 49 CFR 830.5(a)(6) ? https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-VIII/part-830

If yes, then how much is the spittoon worth?

So it's a prop strike so there's an engine teardown. BUT damage to engines & props are not reportable to the FAA. So the question is moot.

The NTSB just wants the report, they don't hand out "Accidents", that the FAA.

And, if your intent was to go fly or return from flying , then yes the accident report is still required even if it was a taxi event. Lastly, it doesn't take much to hit 25K these days, even in a clapped-out 150.

48Stinson1083 wrote:The NTSB just wants the report, they don't hand out "Accidents", that the FAA.

And, if your intent was to go fly or return from flying , then yes the accident report is still required even if it was a taxi event. Lastly, it doesn't take much to hit 25K these days, even in a clapped-out 150.

Seems the 25k is damage to things OTHER than the plane


Per the taxi, not sure about that

§830.5 Immediate notification.
The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office

§830.2 Definitions.

Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of “aircraft accident” includes “unmanned aircraft accident,” as defined herein.

Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.