I'm looking for a recommendation on a mechanic in NW AZ / Southern NV / relevant portions of California to do a pre-buy on a 50's era Cessna.

Separate question: the owner's representative insists on a $500 non-refundable deposit to have a pre-buy involving any panel removal done. Is this SOP, or a sign that they are trying to dissuade thorough pre-buys?

Thank you!

Felix wrote:Separate question: the owner's representative insists on a $500 non-refundable deposit to have a pre-buy involving any panel removal done. Is this SOP, or a sign that they are trying to dissuade thorough pre-buys?

I think it's a sign they're either trying to dissuade a pre-buy inspection or else they're trying to discourage enthusiastic tire-kickers from taking screwdrivers and wrenches to their airplane.

A refundable deposit? Seems reasonable to cover having some hamfist come in and break something during an inspection. Non-refundable? No way.

But really, any reasonable seller with a good airplane should be easy to work with to do your due diligence.

Walk away... buyers market now.

Also wary of "buyers representatives"

Zzz and Bigrenna pretty much covered it. I can understand a guy wanting a deposit or to have someone present while an unknown person tears into their pride and joy, but a non-refunable deposit seems more like a money maker for the 'representative'. jm2c.

I would agree that sellers should be somewhat accommodating to buyers' interests in conducting due diligence, particularly around undertaking a thorough pre-buy. That is how I would behave if I were selling my plane. Even so, I would gladly provide a refundable damage deposit for the sort of in-depth pre-buy that I have in mind in order to bond the seller against any negligence my mechanic might bring.

However, the demand for a non-refundable deposit adds to a handful of other frustrating issues with the way this listing is being marketed. I admit that I would have walked already if I didn't have reasons to believe that this plane has been well cared for. (The list of mods also leaves little to add...other than a sleeping bag and some Mountain House ) Still, underneath the paint and a nicely updated interior might be a solid airframe that will give me years of service, or one turning to powder. The only way to know is to open it up a bit.

Thanks for your perspective, guys.

Also, I might have skewed your read on the situation by referring to the "seller's representative," who to my knowledge isn't a broker but the plane's mechanic and is selling it on behalf of the owner's widow.

He ain't gonna sell it if nobody can inspect it. You put a lot of skin in the game just by flying down to look at it in person - or by paying someone to do so on your behalf. No way is a nonrefundable deposit SOP.

I would politely point out to him that this is not normal and ask him to reconsider. Try and assure him you are serious and not just a tirekicker but don't play BS games.

I suspect this guy doesn't really care if the plane sells or not. He's half-assed trying to help out the widow but doesn't really want to babysit people who are window shopping.

I agree with others than a $500 non-refundable deposit is unusual, but there may be a solid reason behind it.
I wonder if that mechanic who's helping sell the airplane has been burned in the past by buyers and/or their mechanics tearing into the airplane, finding something they didn't like (or not), then leaving it torn apart -- forcing the selling mechanic to spend time (which as we all know is money) getting it all squared away again.
I know I would be leery of letting some mechanic who I've never met jack around with my airplane-- wouldn't you?

hotrod180 wrote:I agree with others than a $500 non-refundable deposit is unusual, but there may be a solid reason behind it.
I wonder if that mechanic who's helping sell the airplane has been burned in the past by buyers and/or their mechanics tearing into the airplane, finding something they didn't like (or not), then leaving it torn apart -- forcing the selling mechanic to spend time (which as we all know is money) getting it all squared away again.
I know I would be leery of letting some mechanic who I've never met jack around with my airplane-- wouldn't you?

Hotrod - That is essentially the story I was told. Some time ago a buyer wanted his mechanic to do a pre-buy. They opened it up, found something they didn't like, and cancelled the deal. Walked away with the plane in pieces. Since then, this gentleman insists on his non-refundable deposit.

That should be VERY easy to remedy with a REFUNDABLE deposit - contingent upon returning the plane to the state when the inspection started.

I would not buy a line of BS. They have something to hide if they won't let you take inspection panels off the plane.

Since the seller's mechanic will probably want to be there anyway, and since as I aid time is money, maybe offer to pay him to help open the plane up for your inspection, and close it up again afterward. If he's marketing the airplane strictly as a favor to the widow, I can see his reluctance to have the plane messed with since he very likely might not be getting any money himself, and any time spent getting it squared away after the inspection would be out of pocket.

Felix wrote:I'm looking for a recommendation on a mechanic in NW AZ / Southern NV / relevant portions of California to do a pre-buy on a 50's era Cessna.

Separate question: the owner's representative insists on a $500 non-refundable deposit to have a pre-buy involving any panel removal done. Is this SOP, or a sign that they are trying to dissuade thorough pre-buys?

Thank you!

Question: #2

No, not SOP.

(That is hilarious. It's not a G5! )

First, be completely prepared to walk away. As several others have said, there is a fair chance that he doesn't want you to see something he knows is in there.

OR, he could just be stupid, which is also a really good reason not to buy from him. He might have operated or maintained the airplane with the same stupidity and closed-mindedness.

There are a few smart-aleck ways for you to explain this to him in a way that he will not be able to argue against:

1) Tell him you will roll over and buy the airplane, without looking inside it. You will give him a sealed envelope with the money in it, and you promise him that all the money is in the envelope. After the bill of sale is signed and you fly away with the airplane, then he can open the envelope and see whether he is happy with what is inside the envelope, because that is exactly what he is asking you to do with the airplane.

2) Tell him that either the buyer or the seller is going to take responsibility for the condition of the airplane, and he gets to choose which one of you takes that responsibility. If he is willing to take the financial responsibility for the airplane's condition, by preventing you from inspecting the airplane, then the sale includes a 90 day warranty that will pay for repairs if you find unsafe or poor quality inside the airplane after you get home. OR, if he doesn't want to take responsibility and stand behind what he is selling, then YOU are happy to take that responsibility yourself, but that comes with a right to see what you are buying before the money changes hands.

3) Tell him you will pay for what you can see. If all he will let you see is the outside of the structure, then you will only pay for that: the outer half of the plane and half of his asking price. You have every right to do this, because the airplane might be an "empty box" with nothing inside. Tell him you want to sell him jewelry in a sealed a jewelry box, without knowing if it's a diamond or a Zircon.

4) Tell him you will fold your money wad in half so he can only see the outside, and tell him you don't want him to see the inside part of the money wad either.

EZ -

Haha - all good suggestions! I can afford to purchase the airplane, but I can't afford to replace rotten spars or rebuild twisted gear boxes straight out of the gate. So, you are right...I have to be disciplined and walk away if things aren't adding up.

Contact BCP member 182STOLdriver, he is in southern Nevada. Qualified IA and has done several pre-buy's for BCP members.

He will also be delightfully eloquent in explaining to the seller that nobody in their right mind buys an airplane without a proper inspection.

Actually, in reality the situation is easy to resolve. Execute a written agreement that YOU and YOUR inspector will reassemble the aircraft to the exact same state of completeness as it was before the inspection, and that if you fail to do this then you will pay for his mechanic to re-assemble it.

If he argues against that, something is wrong with the airplane.

Felix wrote:EZ -

Haha - all good suggestions! I can afford to purchase the airplane, but I can't afford to replace rotten spars or rebuild twisted gear boxes straight out of the gate. So, you are right...I have to be disciplined and walk away if things aren't adding up.

Im half way from Kingman-Boulder City AZ50 is where we work. Do Prebuys and such --- Don't use sellers A&P -your paying for it you get the report.Send your phone number to [email protected] and Ill get back to you .

Felix wrote:I'm looking for a recommendation on a mechanic in NW AZ / Southern NV / relevant portions of California to do a pre-buy on a 50's era Cessna.

Separate question: the owner's representative insists on a $500 non-refundable deposit to have a pre-buy involving any panel removal done. Is this SOP, or a sign that they are trying to dissuade thorough pre-buys?

Thank you!

I would compromise at paying their mechanic to open/close the airplane up. Then your guy inspecting won't have to do that part.

I'm sure he is asking the $500 to keep away tire kickers. I would say we have spent 20 hours working with "buyers" on our 182 sale, only to have them back out.

Tim