Coining a new gold standard here: What Would Kevin Do?

Found a bunch of metal yesterday at a routine oil change. Don't know the extent of the damage yet. It's a pretty cherry 170B with all the standard Alaska mods, except for it doesn't have a big engine. Actually it used to have a big engine, but that was removed before I bought it. I'm not clear if the paperwork for that was ever in order.

Love the plane and very comfortable in it after about 500 hours together. It fits the mission 90% of the time, although if we keep feeding the kids then we are bound to outgrow it in a couple years' time.

Only other models under long-term consideration are a 180 or a 185, so not interested in just buying a Maule.

So, if the engine is toast, then WWKD? replacement O-300, big engine upgrade, 180, 185, or???

-DP

Get a 185 while there are still a few "straight" ones to get?

Do some taxi practice on the mains, put it on it's nose. Then Pponk it with an MT prop. Yep, that's the ticket.

Don't throw the engine in the trash just yet. Take a gander at this SI... http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/SI1492D.PDF. I know you have a continental, but how different are they really? If you can figure out where the metal is coming from you could possibly save yourself a lot of money. You might have a problem that can be addressed by messing with a cylinder or piston or something.

Friend of mine has a kind 185 for sale in FAI. All set up for that country. Let me know if interested and I'll send you his contact. It isn't cheap, but not out of the cosmos either.

gbflyer wrote:Friend of mine has a kind 185 for sale in FAI. All set up for that country. Let me know if interested and I'll send you his contact. It isn't cheap, but not out of the cosmos either.

Thanks. Maybe. I should know more in a couple days.

-DP

Find out what is wrong with your O-300 FIRST, then decide whether it is worth fixing. As mentioned, could be a ring broke and chewed up a cylinder wall, and a standard overhaul (with extra care cleaning the junk out of the case oil passages) will work fine.

Also, decent mid-time O-300's are not horribly expensive compared to O-360's.

I hear ya, EZ. I guess I've been eyeing my next move for a while now, and thinking that this might just be the event that forces my hand. Trying to get learned up.

-DP

I had metal in an 0-320, it was rings in #3 cylinder 1600hrs SMOH. Compression 0/80 ! Tear down and overhaul was about $6.8k (1998 USD) plus overhauling the oil cooler, new hoses and Lord engine mounts. Kept starter, alternator and mags to their life limit.

By the way... A propeller strike can crack an Aluminum case! I have seen it happen.

Edit #1 used overhauled cylinders due to lack of cash, not recommended USE NEW Cylinders kits!

denalipilot wrote:
this might just be the event that forces my hand. Trying to get learned up.

-DP

The poor misunderstood much-maligned GO-300 might be an interesting choice if there is an approval somewhere to use it. 175HP, great big bush climb prop, big jump in takeoff performance, and pretty much bolts on with only a bump in the cowling. If you learn to fly it correctly, and IF that aspect can work in your AK environment, then the advantages might be worth looking at. You might have less trouble with the GO-300's overheating, for example, in the wintertime up there in Denali Park

Disadvantages are also significant for your situation... you'd probably have to buy a spare motor for parts, and/or you'd be looking into the dark side of the force for owner mfg. parts for that gearbox. I know a dark-side Jedi master if you need him

Not a strong push recommendation, but food for thought to possibly get more for less.

Take this "opportunity" to upgrade to the Skywagon, especially if you're going to be hauling kids.

Gotta get the O-300 patched up though so the aircraft is sellable. Of course, then you're back to status quo with an operational low-expense airplane.

Besides the 165 Franklin, are there big-engine upgrades that would still have a fixed-pitch prop? Is there an argument for a setup like that, to keep things simple and minimize operating expense, but gain the HP? or is that wrong-headed? Supposedly the C-85 jugs on the O-300 are a pretty nice performance enhancement, except for the legality bit. If there was an approved combo that achieved the same performance, that would be of interest.

-DP

Hey DP,

Not an expert but FWIW. i have owned a 56 model 172 with 0300 and a 56 model 172 with a O-360 and constant speed prop, completely different airplane from a performance perspective.

My kids are 11 and 12 and getting pretty big, but still handles all 4 of us with full fuel and some baggage with ease. Not a cheap conversion, but worth it if you really like your 170, need more performance and end up needing a new engine anyway.

With plane prices down i looked hard at moving to a 180 or 182 (no Maule), but like you said, my current plane handles 90+% of my flying and i would end up with more cost as most of my flights are alone or with 1 other person. Plus, after all the time, effort and money spent on getting this plane the way i want it, i hate to think about starting over with another.

My 2 cents

Agreed, moving to another airframe that is unknown to yourself, may disappoint! If you like your aircraft and you know her well...stay with it if mission can handle it.

People can hide a lot of discrepancies when the need to sell arises! Maybe even lie about their offering?

Look for a new airplane when you have time and you are flying something if possible. It may take a long time to find a good bird... May have to leave the state to go shopping. Here in the islands ... Never buy an aircraft maintained in Hawaii! 99% suck!

Well, the writing on the wall is coming into sharp focus, and what it says is new engine. Haven't been through this previously, so looking to learn all that I can.

Options as far as I know are:

1. Find a factory reman, or send this engine out for same.
2. Upgrade to 180 HP, the Cadillac (WWKD) option being the Stoots conversion, based here in Fairbanks: IO-360M1A/B
3. Upgrade to a C-180
4. Upgrade to a C-185

I'm in this for the flying, not for the tinkering like some guys who really enjoy building or project airplanes. I want to get back in the air. The airframe is in great shape, and dialed in pretty much just the way I want it. I'm tempted by 180s/ 185s for the increased capability. Basic requirements include all the standard Alaska mods except for floats, and all the safety mods.

Not looking to own two aircraft either. So need to be able to sell the 170 if I go to a 180/5. And I know that if I up the engine in the 170, that it'll basically be a forever airplane, since I'd never get my money back.

Welcome anyone's two cents, or hard-won wisdom. Thanks

-DP

The 0-360 option seems pretty cool to me? I would check CG and useful/payload numbers on that STC right away.

i'm curious to know how the old engine has torn itself apart, if you didn't mind sharing?

Battson wrote:i'm curious to know how the old engine has torn itself apart, if you didn't mind sharing?

Hi Battson,
In my layman's understanding, the wrist pin plugs failed in one cylinder and are trying to fail in another cylinder. The wrist pin started to carve out the cylinder wall in the most-affected jug. I have an overhauled jug I can throw on to get back in the air, but there is strong suspicion that worn connecting rods are the underlying cause, and the same thing may just happen again. That might not be enough to scare some off, but it's enough to undermine my confidence in it.
I don't mind sharing this because I would only sell it with full disclosure of known problems. I know this sounds like bad news, but I'm pretty happy right now that it turned up on the ground, at a mechanic's, instead of all the other possible times and places it could have turned up.

-DP

8GCBC wrote:The 0-360 option seems pretty cool to me? I would check CG and useful/payload numbers on that STC right away.

I understand it pushes the CG near to the forward limit, and adds about 45#. An MT prop would offset some of that. They also do a 210HP IO-390

http://www.stootsaviation.com/Cessna_170___172.html

The other Lycoming conversion option is Del Air, owned by Harry Dellicker. I don't think he has a web site, but I've seen his kit, and it is all high quality stuff...much better than the old AvCon kits.

That's a 180 hp conversion, compared to Stoots' conversions.

Also, depending on where you want/need to take an airplane, with a bigger engine, you're going to be hunting fuel all the time, especially in AK. DelAir has a solution to that as well, or Flint tip tanks.

Thinking C 180? Early 180s have small tanks and thirsty engines as well.

Just things to consider.

My 170 with 180 has easily been within CG even when it wore a Hartzell 80 inch prop with a damper assy up front.

If you want more info, send me a pm.

MTV