Buddy of mine has just gotten an Avid. Has the 582 Rotax with wooden 3 blade. Anyone have any info on these. I've flown the Kitfox some years back, and would expect they would fly close to the same. I like the idea of 9 hours of endurance at cruise. A real fuel mizer. I plan on watching some taxi tests in the morning.

Hey I guess I better take a camera, just incase he gets airborne.

Well my buddy got out his Avid taxied around a bit then said hey you taxi the thing, something isn't right? So I wedge myself in and proceeds to start the Rotax, what a different thing to get used to, way to many rpms. Anyway I taxi a bit then park the plane. Discussion ensues. Seems rudder works fine, but the tail wheel sticks. Think about it for a day. Then John says what about lubing the tail wheel swivel plate. I said well my 180 had a grease zerk on the swivel and so does the J-3 in the hanger next door. So he lubes up the tail wheel and wow a different plane. I don't know squat about the little Matco tail wheel on there, outside it looks way to small, and made of hard rubber. John made a few more higher speed (15-20 mph) taxi runs then parked it. Ponder the situation a bit.

Sounds like you guys are having a lot of fun -- I had an ultralight years ago (middle 80's - Airmass Sunburst), and I remember how exciting the first flight was after those high speed taxi tests. Keep us posted.

Well still watching the Avid drive around on the taxi way and tie down area. Waiting for calmer winds.

Hear there is a Avid instructor in the Caldwell area? Johns talking about getting a bit of duel. Probably a good idea. I haven't flown a tail wheel airplane since 2002 sometime. I would be getting some duel before I flew one again. Johns owned a Chief and a Cessna 140, but that was 20 ago. So duel is in order.

Skylane wrote: So duel is in order.

A duel to the death!

I would think there'd be quite a few Avid/Kitfox people around the Boise/Nampa/Caldwell area, home of both factories. I think they're making Airdale Flier kits arond there somewhere these days.

Eric

Well the Avid is airborne. No issues, Rotax puttered around for 1.5 hours on 4 gallons of fuel. Wished my O-470 did that . Anyway John went out kept it hush hush . Said he didn't want any spectators to the spectical.

Skylane wrote: Has the 582 Rotax with wooden 3 blade. Anyone have any info on these. I've flown the Kitfox some years back

My 2 cents ....
My Kitfox III w/582 was by far the absolute worst airplane I have ever flown. It would not do one thing as advertised. I was brushing DG (decomposed granite) off my knees before everyflight because I prayed to God each and every time I flew it that I didn't crash it. What a horrible little airplane. And that was after I made some radical improvements. It was fine in the air at normal flight speeds. It was great to fly with both doors removed. The landings were another thing.
I have far more tailwheel than trike experience and have owned or flown an RV4, 170A, EAA Bipe, Airbike, Stinson 108-3, Aeronca L3, Hyperbipe.
I have flown my little Airbike in gusty nasty winds of 15 to 20 knots with no fear. And it with more wing area and half the empty weight. Not in the Kitfox. I would not fly it in over 5 mph winds and that with trepidation and even more fervent prayer. There was something amiss in the lowspeed handling department. A good Kitfox mod was to lengthen the fuse 2 feet and raise the horizontal stab somewhat as I remember? (been awhile now) This mod added predictability at landing and high speed roll out. Another thing I hated about the Kitfox was the flaperons. I would not recommend their use and after a couple take offs using them I never used them again. The more flaps you use the less aileron authority you have. Judicious use of flaps rendered the ailerons totally useless. What a horrible idea. Wonder how many have wrecked their Kitfoxes because of it?
I had mentioned to a few people online what a dirty little secret it is about the poor handling qualities of the Kitfox. Oh one guy said, "it's not a mystery around here, they are laying piled in heaps all around my neck of the woods". If you read the trade magazines, those Kitfoxes were the finest little airplanes ever created but consider the advertising done in those same magazines and you may get the picture in terms of bias. Also might I ad that if the planes were flown by a very experienced tailwheel pilot off a grass strip WITHOUT strong winds and gusts, maybe their experience would be different than mine but I live in one of the windiest places on earth and with NO GRASS to tame the tailwheel.
Don't know about the AVID but I suspect they are superior. They simply must be. The only advise I have is that if your friends AVID has the ground adjustable wooden GSC prop?....let me tell you they are pretty to look at but they are junk compared to the ground adjustable composites like the IVO or Warp Drive. I know, I have been there. Got a brand new GSC hanging on my wall. That is their best use. I tried to sell it for half what I paid. No takers. You will get 20 to 30% better climb from of the aforementioned composites.
Good luck with the AVID FLYER. Like I said, it simply must be better than a Kitfox.
One other bit of advise may help and that is to leave some power in in all cases and especially at low speeds to increase airflow over the tail until you are three pointed and slowed way down. And another thing with that 582 is watch that EGT with ALL DILIGENCE. That is THE MOST IMPORTANT gage in the airplane BAR NONE. With the exception of a stuck float on 2 occasions, I had no trouble with the 582.

The new facilities are in Homedale ID from what I understand. The people that are running the show are former employee's of the skystar facility in Caldwell.

Flyby, Wow. It sounds like you either had a very poorly rigged Kitfox or the Model III doesn't live up to its reputation.

I have the Model IV Speedster and I couldn't be happier with the performance. Yes it is a light plane and gets knocked around in wind over 15 knots, but it has predictable control inputs and very forgiving slow flight/stall characteristics. Last flight I landed in a quartering tailwind of 10 knots gusting to 15 in the hills of New Hampshire. Not comfortable by any means but the 'fox handled it OK.

The new Kitfox company owners, Jim and Debra McBean, are great people. They are marketing the Kitfox Super Sport, which is basically an upgraded Model 7. Looks like a very nice plane.

crazyivan wrote:Model III doesn't live up to its reputation.

I don't know what to say other than that was my experience. The plane was terribly out of rig when I bought it. I got it flying hands off in a couple hours of adjusting and test flying. The builer had flown it perhaps an hour or two on the 28 or so hours TT the airplane had on the tach. Necessary flight hours simply must have been fudged. As well as being out of rig it would begin to overheat after a few minutes of flight so I knew the time on the tach was almost all on the ground. I heard through the grapevine later that the owner had literally worried himself to death over that airplane. He had been trying to sell it for some time when he died. I was able to fix the overheating, out of rig condition as well as improving on the ground handling and braking DRAMATICALLY.
Never the less, I had a very hard time selling due to my contempt for it shall we say. I talked 9 out of 10 potential suitors into looking for something else. I let it go real cheap and only to a highly experienced pilot and an A&P too by the way. He was talking about doing some of the mods he had heard of as he and his friend were looking at the airplane. I was done fooling with it. The buyer had it for sale a short time after he bought it from me. I am afraid to inquire what happened to it, who, what or where it is.
The airplane looked simply beautiful. Included in the paperwork was about 30K in reciepts the builder had spent on the plane. I did have enjoyable times flying it but never trusted it to act predictably in landing. One time in particular I happened to bounce a little on landing. Not an unforgivable or unusual occurance. Upon the bounce the plane went about 45 % in yaw and wouldn't correct but somewhat with full rudder input. The landing was ugly but ultimately uneventful except for sucking up a seat cushion. I just didn't trust it to react normally or typically I guess you could say?
I employed many different techniques to landing in an attempt to mitigate it's poor manners but was unable to find a fool proof method. A wheel landing worked well but the transition to 3 point was too wooly. I think the rudder would blank out or something? Landing in a 3 point as slow as possible but with some power seemed to be the best I could do. I put about 75 hours on it all together.

If you take a look at the Model IV the tail is much bigger/taller. I guess this is to cure the wing blanking out the vert stab at high AOA that your Model III exhibited.

Did you ever check the horizontal stabilizer incidence against your wing? I wonder if the wings were hung incorrectly.

crazyivan wrote: the Model IV the tail is much bigger/taller.
Did you ever check the horizontal stabilizer incidence against your wing? I wonder if the wings were hung incorrectly.

I adjusted a wing and added rudder trim tab and adjusted. Pitch was OK. In hindsight something as simple as a rudder gap seal may have helped? This has been a while back now and is bringing back a lot of memories and thoughts I haven't had for a long time but suffice it to say that after owning and flying it for a time I was well aware that there were a myriad of other airplanes I would rather have. It's capabilities were highly exaggerated anyhow and as a 2 seater it was nearly useless. Especially for a pilot/passenger of my girth. Combine that with the local winds, dubious handling and oh yes, the narrow runways at my home base. The day it was sold was a happy day.
Your Model IV may be a completely different animal.

Flyby and Crazyivan, great posts.

Interesting to hear some differences in the III and IV. I will be over in Homedale here in the next week. Think I'll drop by and visit the new folks at the factory. My kid thinks he wants to build one for his senior project. If so he better start now, and give himself 4 years Motorcycles get in the mix and not much airplane stuff will occur.

Thanks for the coversation, Bub