From what I've been reading just on this thread. I will never buy or use any of Flight Prep products! And I will never visit there web site again! I just don't like company's or individuals that operate in that fashion .

The sectionals, ADF, my 396, Skyvector, Runwayfinder, Shortfield.com, AirNav.com and plane ole common since works just fine for me. But then again, 99.5% of my flying is for fun right now (oh wait, I'm plane less right now )

Here is another reason to be an AOPA member. Since RF is not available at this moment.

AOPA Internet Flight Planner available, upgrade coming soon

By Thomas B. Haines

AOPA has been advised by its flight planning partner, Jeppesen, that the online flight planning methods employed by the AOPA Internet Flight Planner, which is powered by Jeppesen, do not infringe on the patent recently awarded to FlightPrep.

FlightPrep has notified entities that provide online flight planning, including AOPA and Jeppesen, that it would like to meet to discuss the FlightPrep patent. The FlightPrep patent is apparently on very specific methods of online flight planning, which Jeppesen has determined are not used in its flight planning products, including the one developed in partnership with AOPA. Therefore, AOPA and Jeppesen have declined to meet with FlightPrep.

AOPA members can be assured that the popular AOPA Internet Flight Planner continues to be available and will be for the foreseeable future. In fact, AOPA is planning a major upgrade to be released in the next few weeks.

http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/arti ... c_sect=gan

Good day

Well at least FltPlan is not going anywhere

December 16, 2010

For Immediate Release:

Flight Plan, LLC (FltPlan.com) announced today that it is not affected by FlightPrep's U.S. Patent No. 7,640,098.

FlightPrep recently contacted FltPlan.com concerning the patent which is directed to "A Process for Generating Travel Plans on the Internet." In the letter, Chairman Roger Stenbock suggested that FltPlan.com enter into a confidentiality agreement to exchange confidential information.

After review of the patent, FltPlan.com does not believe it is relevant to the FltPlan.com website so confidential or other discussions with FlightPrep are not warranted. FltPlan.com has asked FlightPrep if it alleges the FltPlan.com website infringes the patent but FlightPrep has not responded.

"FlightPrep's patent does not apply, nor is it relevant to the FltPlan.com website," stated FltPlan.com's President Ken Wilson. "Since FltPlan.com does not use FlightPrep's patented technology, we have not been, nor will we be in negotiations with FlightPrep."

With over 100,000 users, FltPlan.com has been providing free online flight planning since 1999 which is two years prior to the filing of FlightPrep patent application which matured into U.S. Patent No. 7,640,098.

Runway finder to fight back!!

http://blog.runwayfinder.com/

VERY INTERESTING!!!!LISTEN TO THE LINK.

FlightPrep's Patent Could Be Upheld: Patent Attorney

FlightPrep's online flight planning patent could very well stand up to a court challenge says pilot and patent attorney Lionel Lavenue. In an exclusive podcast interview with AVweb, Lavenue says the emotion and sentiment being expressed by those angered by FlightPrep's preliminary efforts to enforce the patent mean little in front of a jury. Much of the ire against Flight Prep stems from a feeling that they are attacking the "little guys" and requesting nondisclosure agreements to prevent those involved from talking to the press or each other. Lavenue says Flight Prep's strategy is actually quite normal, and protects the patent holder from an immediate countersuit of "a declaratory judgment of non-infringement." He also says it's common to approach smaller companies first before going after the more powerful entities to see what the counter arguments might emerge. "The patent is not without warts," Lavenue said but he he also noted that a jury deciding infringement doesn't need to meet the "beyond a shadow of a doubt" level of certainty. In fact, they only need a "51 percent" certainty — more sure than not there's an infringement. Major players such as AOPA/Jeppesen, Flight Aware and Fltplan.com have all been contacted by Flight Prep and have all said they don't infringe and will not discuss the issue with Flight Prep. This could come back to haunt them in court, Lavenue said.

FlightPrep's overtures to other flight planning Web sites has been circulated and it appears the same letter went to all of them. FlightPrep asks to enter into a nondisclosure agreement to discuss the matter before negotiating a licensing agreement. After consulting with a patent attorney, Fltplan.com owner Ken Wilson said it was felt the patent their website and technology didn't infringe. Fltplan.com and other sites we contacted haven't heard more from Flight Prep since the conversation ended in September. According to Lavenue, if RunwayFinder loses its lawsuit in court, that would significantly strengthen FlightPrep's position and that it's likely major players would find it cheaper to reach a licensing agreement rather than enter a court fight. At least one web site, not yet hit with a lawsuit, has told AVweb they intend to fight if challenged.

http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/Au ... latedStory

porterjet wrote:Runway finder to fight back!!

http://blog.runwayfinder.com/

RunwayFinder To Fight FlightPrep Patent

RunwayFinder owner Dave Parsons says he will fight the patent awarded FlightPrep for online flight planning. In a blog post Parsons says he thinks he's found enough holes in the patent to defend his service's technology against it. "I think there is a clear path toward fighting the lawsuit against RunwayFinder, and potentially a way to invalidate their patent," Parsons wrote. He plans to represent himself and he won't have much time to prepare. He must answer the lawsuit filed by FlightPrep by Dec. 28. Meanwhile. FlightPrep is defending itself in the court of public opinion.

In its most recent blog post, FlightPrep attempts to clear up what it claims are misconceptions about the patent, the lawsuit and the players involved. It also notes that patent protection is a constitutional right established to promote and reward innovation. Parsons' plan to fight the patent is a sharp reversal of his original decision to simply close the popular website. However, even after he shut the site down, FlightPrep declined to withdraw the suit. Although the court documents filed so far don't appear to specify damages, Parsons has previously quoted FlightPrep as calculating the damages in the millions of dollars based on a multiplication of the number of unique visits RunwayFinder gets each month (about 25,000) by the cost of FlightPrep's annual subscription of $149

I will never buy or use any of Flight Prep products!

I agree hole heartedly.
Mean while I just filed for a patent for online porn.
Thats got to be a trillion doller industry, I can just smell the mone.
(I think thats what that smell is)

Navmonster now also offline due to the FlightPrat patent scam: http://beta.navmonster.com/

Due to the litigious environment that we live in today, NavMonster is no longer in operation. I make little to no money off this site, and have neither the time, resources, nor money to defend myself against absurd patents. You just shouldn't be able to patent common sense and good programming skills, but sadly someone has. Best of luck to those that stay in the fight

The court of public opinion is weighing in: http://boycottflightprep.com/

Safe Flying!

Roger Stenbock, JD, CFII
FlightPrep Co-Founder

Kyle Everson
FlightPrep Co-Founder

From the bottom of the open letter referenced earlier. Note the "JD" after Stenbock name. I believe that sums it up!
Another great site Navmonster hits the dust due to the flight prep situation

Due to the litigious environment that we live in today, NavMonster is no longer in operation. I make little to no money off this site, and have neither the time, resources, nor money to defend myself against absurd patents. You just shouldn't be able to patent common sense and good programming skills, but sadly someone has. Best of luck to those that stay in the fight

I need to make one thing perfectly clear: By closing this site, I give up the fight, but by no means do I admit any wrongdoing.

Want to own and operate your own flight planning web site? NavMonster is available for purchase. Inquiries are welcomed

Marc Alexander
[email protected]
Dec 20, 2010

If you really want to delve into the details, here is Flight Prep's blog:

http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/myth ... tprep.html

I am a happy satisfied FlightPrep user!

From what I have learned so far my decision is to stand by FlightPrep. I have read and listened to every article on this.
I reserve the right to change my mind if new facts are presented.

TomD wrote:If you really want to delve into the details, here is Flight Prep's blog:

http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/myth ... tprep.html

Good points.

Throttle Pusher wrote:

I will never buy or use any of Flight Prep products!

I agree hole heartedly.
Mean while I just filed for a patent for online porn.
Thats got to be a trillion doller industry, I can just smell the mone.
(I think thats what that smell is)

If you use any online planning service you may be paying (indirectly) royalties to FlightPrep

This link is to an AVWeb podcast with patent attorney Lionel Lavenue of Finnegan the largest patent law firm in the US. They are a neutral party and very interesting what he has to say.


http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/Au ... latedStory

http://www.finnegan.com/

FlightPrep's online flight planning patent could very well stand up to a court challenge, says pilot and patent attorney Lionel Lavenue. In an exclusive podcast interview with AVweb, Lavenue says the emotion and sentiment being expressed by those angered by FlightPrep's preliminary efforts to enforce the patent mean little in front of a jury. Much of the ire against Flight Prep stems from a feeling that they are attacking the "little guys" and requesting nondisclosure agreements to prevent those involved from talking to the press or each other. Lavenue says Flight Prep's strategy is actually quite normal, and protects the patent holder from an immediate countersuit of "a declaratory judgment of non-infringement." He also says it's common to approach smaller companies first before going after the more powerful entities to see what counter arguments might emerge. "The patent is not without warts," Lavenue said, but he also noted that a jury deciding infringement doesn't need to meet the "beyond a shadow of a doubt" level of certainty. In fact, they only need a "51 percent" certainty -- more sure than not there's an infringement. Major players such as AOPA/Jeppesen, Flight Aware and Fltplan.com have all been contacted by Flight Prep and have all said they don't infringe and will not discuss the issue with Flight Prep. This could come back to haunt them in court, Lavenue said.

FlightPrep's overtures to other flight planning websites has been circulated and it appears the same letter went to all of them. FlightPrep asks to enter into a nondisclosure agreement to discuss the matter before negotiating a licensing agreement. After consulting with a patent attorney, Fltplan.com owner Ken Wilson said it was felt the patent does not apply to their website and technology. Fltplan.com and other sites we contacted haven't heard more from Flight Prep since the conversation ended in September. According to Lavenue, if RunwayFinder loses its lawsuit in court, that would significantly strengthen FlightPrep's position and that it's likely major players would find it cheaper to reach a licensing agreement rather than enter a court fight. At least one website, not yet hit with a lawsuit, has told AVweb they intend to fight if challenged

Good day

I found this out there on the Internet:

http://boycottflightprep.com/

Many harsh words. I fear that Flightprep may never sell another product, so if this bogus patent is upheld, it will likely be their only income.

Thanks for the link Zane

Signed

I looked at that yesterday, the list grew fast today.
I recognized one of the names, has the potential to be a heavy hitter.

Zane wrote:Many harsh words. I fear that Flightprep may never sell another product, so if this bogus patent is upheld, it will likely be their only income.

Yesterday I had to take my Garmin 430W to Pacific Coast Avionics for repair. FlightPrep's world head quaters is in the same building.
I went in to FlightPrep's world head quarters to talk and see how things are going. It is business as usually. Systems selling good for Christmas. The big bad bully FlightPrep has 4 employees and the owners. It kinda seems like the big noise makers are people who want flight planning software for free.

The people who want a good system just buy it and keep quiet.

I looked at every system I could find before I bought FlightPrep 3.5 years ago. If there was something better I never found it. I am still looking too. If I find something better I will switch.

Good day

I started out on my own 7yrs ago, didn't copy or steel trade secrets from anyone.
Borrowed money from the bank, (with my house as collateral) bought some equipment....to earn a living and put food on my table (the American dream).
Now 3 years later, Peter Kiewit Sons decides that I operate my excavator in a manor described in their patent, and put me out of business? BULLSHIT, I would be loaded for bear.

What I don't get is how it could take 10 years to issue a patent?

I used to use runwayfinder because I liked it best, and would have paid for it because I liked it best. But my favorite thing was not having to log on everytime I wanted to see if an area was vfr. Just the convenience of a quick peek was great. There is nothing out there that I have found that works better. I have been looking the last week and haven't found a replacement .

Terry wrote:I started out on my own 7yrs ago, didn't copy or steel trade secrets from anyone.
Borrowed money from the bank, (with my house as collateral) bought some equipment....to earn a living and put food on my table (the American dream).
Now 3 years later, Peter Kiewit Sons decides that I operate my excavator in a manor described in their patent, and put me out of business? BULLSHIT, I would be loaded for bear.

What I don't get is how it could take 10 years to issue a patent?

For debate, let's say you made an new attachment for your excavator and got a patent. Let's say it took 9 years to get the patent and LOTS! of money. In the mean time other contractors start copying your attachment. Finally the USPTO awards you a patent. You going to kiss all your effort and money good bye, or enforce YOUR patent and ask for reasonable royalties, or take legal measures to stop the pirates from using your idea?

I have learned a lot about patents in the last week reading about this.

Myth: Obtaining and protecting one’s patent is bullying, immoral, evil, unfair, or shameful.

Fact: Article I, Section 8, Clause 8, of the Constitution states that the Executive branch shall ‘promote the progress of science and the useful arts by securing for limited times to inventors the exclusive right to their respective discoveries.’ The USPTO states, “under this system of protection, American industry has flourished. New products have been invented, new uses for old ones discovered, and employment opportunities created for millions of Americans. The strength and vitality of the U.S. economy depends directly on effective mechanisms that protect new ideas and investments in innovation and creativity. The continued demand for patents and trademarks underscores the ingenuity of American inventors and entrepreneurs. The USPTO is at the cutting edge of the Nation's technological progress and achievement” [see http://www.uspto.gov/about/index.jsp or http://www.uspto.gov/faq/patents.jsp].

Myth VS Fact:

http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/myth ... tprep.html

Good day

m7flyer wrote:I used to use runwayfinder because I liked it best, and would have paid for it because I liked it best. But my favorite thing was not having to log on everytime I wanted to see if an area was vfr. Just the convenience of a quick peek was great. There is nothing out there that I have found that works better. I have been looking the last week and haven't found a replacement .

This is a great wx site. Do a box zoom for your area. Your welcome.

I feel like I am pissing into the wind on this thread.

http://aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/java/

For debate, let's say you made an new attachment for your excavator and got a patent. Let's say it took 9 years to get the patent and LOTS! of money. In the mean time other contractors start copying your attachment. Finally the USPTO awards you a patent. You going to kiss all your effort and money good bye, or enforce YOUR patent and ask for reasonable royalties, or take legal measures to stop the pirates from using your idea?

The problem is Gov. Issuing the patent 10 years later.
I don't know if anyone copied FlightPreps software or not, but I know we wouldn't make much progress in decade cycles.