They been flying the Big Sue for ever, I know since 1981 when I saw the first 3 in trail, they were Herks then!!Sure is easier to see them than a cub!!
GT

OscarDeuce wrote:

exodus wrote:Damned straight!! Our Military's have just as much right, if not more to "our" airspace. They're training and proficiency is vital to our security and we're not to judge how that training is carried out and where.. As Pilots of every type of craft there should be no us and them BS. Or we are just as bad as the anybody else that criticizes others endeavors. If I saw a military aircraft that size landing at our local airport. I consider it a privilege to witness it. As a part of GA, the reaction I take on that event is generally positive!

No, they don't have "more" right to our airspace. And, as the folks who PAY for their training, we damn well have every right to speak out about how that training is carried out. Back in the 80s, the Air Force was using GA aircraft operating in the Caribbean to practice intercepts. One got a bit too close and sliced a Barron in half with his wing, killing an entire family.

Training is an important part of mission readiness, but these guys already have lots of airspace that's off limits to us to train in.

Best,
O-2

Wow, way back in the eighties. Your right that is a huge accident rate. Since then there has been tens of thousands of civil to civil air collisions of all types. I recall the eighties, when the drug cartels were ramping up cocaine smuggling in that area . Aerial drug interdiction was a new field. Id say practicing on G/A aircraft made a lot of sense back then. It's a grave tragedy that, that event happened and innocent people lost their lives, but accidents do and will continue to occur through out the continued existence of human endeavors. Risk is everywhere, and for the most part necessary in a free Country.

I remember staying at Jim Younkin's hangar back in 1997. In the middle of the night I kind of remembered hearing a lot of jet noise and the next morning everybody asked if I saw what was going on---I didn't. The Arkansas Razorbacks were coming back in a 737 from Ohio and landed at Springdale instead of Fayetteville. The thing just ran off the end of the runway a little bit but got stuck. Tore up the runway and a wrecker had to help but it flew out that night after the team departed and took a bus the rest of the way.

BeeMan,

There are some great maps you can pick up off the military (I usually got mine updated at the trade show; there will probably be copies at Merrill Field's office) that show the training routes they take over the valley, and altitudes, so you'll know where to expect 'em (the actual VFR routes, not the "military corridors" between VORs). They're gonna be low and slow, especially coming in and out of the air drop zone over Elmendorf. One of those routes is right off the end at pattern altitude for Goose Bay, and trust me, I've taken off or extended a busy downwind only to say things in excited soprano when I see a mass of grey headed straight at me.

Not all the crews are old hands at Alaska, and I was always a little nervous about watching for them. I know from talking to them on the ground that not all of them understand "It's Alaska, idiot; not everybody is talking, much less squawking, and some of 'em can't go faster than 80 knots. Stop blindly trusting the TCAS and look out the window!" (Then again, if they saw me, wonder if I scared them about as badly as they scared me?)

That said, I'd rather have 'em train here and be in top form before they go places where people are shooting at them! They're good guys and gals, after all, and I'm willing to share the air to help 'em out, long as we all stay safe.

I thought my beef might liven up the conversation a bit! A couple thoughts in response:
Piper - I'm not transponder equipped, so don't trust your TCAS to warn you where I am. I keep my head up and I hope you do too.
Exodus - Don't get me wrong, I appreciate our servicemen (and women) and want them to be well prepared before they get shot at in another corner of the world. There are adequate MOAs in Alaska for low level ops and even if they are practicing drops at Malemute, their descent and climb gradients can take them high overhead. I need training too. Since we are so eager to share, how do you think it will work if I go practice T&Gs at Elmendorf AFB? My point was that they create a hazard by low level training in the valley and it is not necessary.
Oscardeuce - You got it.
Dot_AK - I stay informed too. In fact I attended the FAAST Palmer Pancake Breakfast this spring where the C17 guys gave a short talk on how we might better avoid mid-air collisions. As you will recall, 2011 was not a good year for mid airs. In any case, one point during the presentation was that we need to make better use of CTAF and position reports so we can be aware of, and looking for, other traffic in our vicinity. I was dutifully making position reports on 122.8, did not hear a position report from the C17s, and did not get a response when I hailed them. I think perhaps they talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

BeeMan wrote:I thought my beef might liven up the conversation a bit! A couple thoughts in response:
Piper - I'm not transponder equipped, so don't trust your TCAS to warn you where I am. I keep my head up and I hope you do too.
Exodus - Don't get me wrong, I appreciate our servicemen (and women) and want them to be well prepared before they get shot at in another corner of the world. There are adequate MOAs in Alaska for low level ops and even if they are practicing drops at Malemute, their descent and climb gradients can take them high overhead. I need training too. Since we are so eager to share, how do you think it will work if I go practice T&Gs at Elmendorf AFB? My point was that they create a hazard by low level training in the valley and it is not necessary.
Oscardeuce - You got it.
Dot_AK - I stay informed too. In fact I attended the FAAST Palmer Pancake Breakfast this spring where the C17 guys gave a short talk on how we might better avoid mid-air collisions. As you will recall, 2011 was not a good year for mid airs. In any case, one point during the presentation was that we need to make better use of CTAF and position reports so we can be aware of, and looking for, other traffic in our vicinity. I was dutifully making position reports on 122.8, did not hear a position report from the C17s, and did not get a response when I hailed them. I think perhaps they talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Biting my tongue...............nope, can't do it.
We should be careful when talking about things we don't have a full knowledge of...

I want to rearrange the words in the thread title.

Short Landings C-17 ops

BeeMan wrote:I thought my beef might liven up the conversation a bit! A couple thoughts in response:
Piper - I'm not transponder equipped, so don't trust your TCAS to warn you where I am. I keep my head up and I hope you do too.

We could use some liven'in up around here sometimes. The bottom line of where this conversation has gone is. No matter who we are, sharing these great skies together. Radio's and other equipment should never be relied on for separation and conflict avoidance. 95% of the work has to be done by neck and eyeball grease. Expect the unexpected at all times. From heavy transport equipment and fighter jets to gliders and RC aircraft, hell even a flying lawnchair is possible. Expect any one of them to cross your path at anytime. Even if you are, flying in "the middle of nowhere".