Background:

This last summer we were on an overseas trip in the Gulfstream. We returned to the states and dropped our passengers off in Carlsbad, CA on a beautiful Sunday afternoon. As we pulled up to Premier Jet, a gorgeous P-51 landed and taxi'd up to the front row, near the door of the FBO. What a treat!

Our entire crew admired the plane as it seemed to be a particularly pristine warbird. We then went inside to pay for fuel and a lineman followed us in and asked if any of us wanted a ride?? WHAT???? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? was our response. He told us the plane would come over from Arizona on weekends and the pilot was a good friend of the FBO's and often took random folks for a ride. Long story short, our then chief pilot was getting off in Carlsbad for training and we were on a semi-quick-turn so he drew the lucky card.

We went back outside and sure enough, the offer was legitimized as the Mustang pilot graciously briefed our guy and proceeded to get ready for the impromtu airshow. We talked to the Mustang pilot for 5 or 10 minutes and they were off. I had my new camera and we stuck around long enough to get some photos and a video of the takeoff and a few low passes. What are the chances of this?

I'll never forget the words the Mustang pilot said to us that day concerning "his" P-51. He said something to the effect of " I consider myself not the owner but the caretaker of this machine. It is in my hands for a period of time, and I am to keep it in perfect condition. I must also use every opportunity to share it with as many people as I can, as often as I can. There are now less than 100 of these". I thought that was pretty cool of him.

Anyhows, I checked the FAA website tonight before heading off to sleep and found some bad news about a P-51 that crashed in Chandler, AZ yesterday and the serial number looks to be the same number painted on the side of this plane. Sad. Does anyone have any more information on what happened???


http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accide ... /index.cfm
I'll share some photos from that day. The Mustang pilot is wearing the tan shirt and cap.

Tragic loss of a great Warbird & pilot.
A guy I knew also lost his life in a P-51D at Oshkosh 5 years ago.

Thats the one that crashed !

That would be Nazy. He lived and flew out of Stellar Airpark. A buddy of mine who flys for Southwest watched the crash from his front yard. Sounds like he lost it on landing, ran off the runway, and hit Ron Pratte's and Jeff Marks' hangars at high speed and exploded.

Unfortunately, we've watched him come close to disaster on takeoff and landings lots of times out of there. Sad deal.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:
Unfortunately, we've watched him come close to disaster on takeoff and landings lots of times out of there. Sad deal.

Gump

I used to race a Bug Eye Austin Healy Sprite many moons ago. What fun. I drove a guys Shelby Cobra (289 version) and got the crap scared out of me. Not all have the reflexes to handle that much machine. It takes more than money. If I only fly every three weeks, it is interesting how bad my short field and cross wind landing turn out. It is sad all the way arround.

Tim

qmdv wrote:

GumpAir wrote:
Unfortunately, we've watched him come close to disaster on takeoff and landings lots of times out of there. Sad deal.

Gump

I used to race a Bug Eye Austin Healy Sprite many moons ago. What fun. I drove a guys Shelby Cobra (289 version) and got the crap scared out of me. Not all have the reflexes to handle that much machine. It takes more than money. If I only fly every three weeks, it is interesting how bad my short field and cross wind landing turn out. It is sad all the way arround.

Tim

You mean you can afford to fly every three weeks?

gb

Sad story.

Btw, Doolittle said that he believes you should fly at least 20hrs a month to stay sharp.

Here's a YouTube clip of a T/O & L with Nazy at the controls. The landing is a little abrupt at one point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_1yjrTiEmU

My mechanic knew him and several other folks down there. The scuttlebutt he was told is that Nazzy was trying to do a quick go around (maybe a panic go-around), cobbed the throttle, and torque rolled it into the ground resulting in it cartwheeling and hitting a fence (looked like a concrete wall with fencing at the top, where about 6 feet of wing was torn off and the bird ended up entering a hanger somewhat inverted and in reverse. I saw a pic of what was left in the hanger doorway.....what a tragic mess. looked like the right wing stub was almost in normal flying attitude in a bank to the left with the gear down and the belly scoop was above and behind the wing stub and inverted. Apparently it happened the evening of 3/11 and from the photo, it had to have been instantaneous after it hit the hanger. Simply tragic.

Here's one report of it with some links to photos. http://semi-accident.com/blog/tag/p-51-mustang-crash

AKGrouch wrote:My mechanic knew him and several other folks down there. The scuttlebutt he was told is that Nazzy was trying to do a quick go around (maybe a panic go-around), cobbed the throttle, and torque rolled it into the ground resulting in it cartwheeling and hitting a fence (looked like a concrete wall with fencing at the top, where about 6 feet of wing was torn off and the bird ended up entering a hanger somewhat inverted and in reverse. I saw a pic of what was left in the hanger doorway.....what a tragic mess. looked like the right wing stub was almost in normal flying attitude in a bank to the left with the gear down and the belly scoop was above and behind the wing stub and inverted. Apparently it happened the evening of 3/11 and from the photo, it had to have been instantaneous after it hit the hanger. Simply tragic.

I've heard it was very similar to the Camarillo P-51 accident back in July 2007.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/pelic ... 755-1.html

Chris

If I won a 20 million dollar lottery I could then afford a P-51 or a Corsair. Now lets say I buy one and get signed off. Now I fly it once a month and get in 5 take offs and landing that month. How long before I am dead and we loose another one of these cherished planes.

The Russians lost that submarine several years back cus they did not have the money to go out a drill, drill, drill. They had not been to sea in so long they forgot how to run the boat.

When I was on subs we were always at sea and we were really good. We once had a Mk 37-2 torpedo go hot in the rack. The torpedo gang got it into a tube and got rid of it and it had a low level explosion about 45 seconds after it left the tube. If those guys had not been on top of their game we would have lost the boat along with yours trully.

I think it is the same with these HP millitary planes. They do not fly these enough to stay on their game IMHO.

Tim

qmdv wrote:I think it is the same with these HP millitary planes. They do not fly these enough to stay on their game IMHO.

Tim

I think that is a very generalized statement. Have you ever flown any of these warbirds? I have quite a few freinds who own the ones that you mentioned and they fly them as often if not more so than I fly. The P-51 & Corsair are easier to fly and land than the T-6 which is why it was such a great trainer. In many cases the pilots of these warbirds simply do things that are not recomended and are even warned against thinking that they can do it better. 3 point landing a Mustang is one of these issues that has claimed the life of more than one pilot and Mustang in the last few years. Even though it is highly discouraged in the Mustang community there are still pilots who continue to do it...unfortunately it appears that Su Su is yet another example. If you 3 point a Mustang and anything goes awry, a go around becomes a deadly ordeal as the wing is at stall speed and go around power can result in a torque roll into the ground.

lowflybye wrote:

qmdv wrote:I think it is the same with these HP millitary planes. They do not fly these enough to stay on their game IMHO.

Tim

I think that is a very generalized statement. Have you ever flown any of these warbirds? I have quite a few freinds who own the ones that you mentioned and they fly them as often if not more so than I fly. The P-51 & Corsair are easier to fly and land than the T-6 which is why it was such a great trainer. In many cases the pilots of these warbirds simply do things that are not recomended and are even warned against thinking that they can do it better. 3 point landing a Mustang is one of these issues that has claimed the life of more than one pilot and Mustang in the last few years. Even though it is highly discouraged in the Mustang community there are still pilots who continue to do it...unfortunately it appears that Su Su is yet another example. If you 3 point a Mustang and anything goes awry, a go around becomes a deadly ordeal as the wing is at stall speed and go around power can result in a torque roll into the ground.

I've averaged 6+ hours a month in a T-6 for the last 6 months, among staying current in other airplanes. I can attest that no matter how often I fly it, it will still try to bite you in the ass when IT feels like it. I've been in the back of a Mustang during a 3-point and the nose is pretty damn high - so much that it's kinda scary. I've also been demoed a dirty, high power application (at altitude) and it's really eye opening. Put those two together and it's not a place I would want to be. I'm not speculating on what happened in the accident because I wasn't there, and I haven't flown a 51 yet, but a lot can go wrong in a very short time - current or not.

Tim,

I too think you're generalizing a bit too much.

A lot has to do with the pilot's prior experience as well. At a few hundred hours PIC time, most pilot's skills are still a bit perishable. Lay off flying for a while, and your flying skills tend to erode fairly fast.

As you build experience, particularly in a variety of aircraft types, those basic skills tend to stick a bit longer during periods of disuse.

That said, I am always amazed at how frequently people get in airplanes and either fail to get a good checkout or go through a checkout then immediately forget everything they SHOULD have learned in that process.

I've never flown a Mustang, but I know a fellow who rebuilds them, and he says they're a pretty gentle airplane, as warbirds go. He's flown a lot of them.

But, many airplanes have some configuration that can be hazardous to your health if you aren't aware of it, and learn to manage it. Take the Cessna 185, for example. One thing that ANY 185 pilot should experience is getting set up for a three point landing, with full flaps, and idle power, and trimmed for glide. Now, close to the ground, perform a go-around. That will provide an eye opening experience for the person new to a 185. And, sooner or later, there's a good chance you'll experience that phenomenon on your own. I put people through it in checkouts. I've heard people say "never three point a 185 with full flaps", etc. BS--just learn to fly the airplane in all its configurations. You'll be a safer pilot.

Again, EVERY airplane has some quirks. As the man said: "The Piper Cub is a very gentle airplane. It's so gentle that it can just barely kill you."

Learn the airplanes characteristics, practice escapes from those corners, or as is the case with the Mustang--don't permit yourself to get into those corners.

MTV

Oh yes, the deadly MK 37 torpedo battery problem. You need sea water around torpedo or the warhead overheats with the battery right next to it. Turns out that vibration could cause the dry battery to fill with fluid and fire them up in the rack. Worked on lots of them in the navy, but they are all out of service now. Had one arm in the shop on the test stand....the guy running the test forgot to replace the warhead with a dummy one (no really!)
I was on the Holland (as-32) in Holy Lock Scotland.
Anyway, saw a T-6 here at HWD that got crashed same way as the P-51. He put the power to it and rolled it in view of the tower. Sad, same deal, low time in type. The thing had only about 2500 TT hours on it too, made me sick.

OK I stand correted. Can things just go to hell faster with more performance? Or is it just complacency that can get us all?

Tim

qmdv wrote:OK I stand correted. Can things just go to hell faster with more performance? Or is it just complacency that can get us all?

Tim

Both ...and usually complacency in these HP warbirds accelerates the speed at which things go to hell...