Hello All,

I’ve been reading the forum for a few months now and have been impressed with the backcountry knowledge on this webpage. I recently bought a Piper PA20/22-150 as a starter backcountry aircraft. I was wondering if anybody on this forum has any operating tips and tricks for the Pacer. Also any information on common maintenance issues would be great.

Thanks
Kevin

Kevin

I flew my PA22/20 150 into the backcountry for many years. When I bought it, I had the prop repitched to a more climb pitch. It was from the east and had a cruise pitch.

It is a very good backcountry plane depending upon how much weight you carry and the density altitude. How much time do you have in it?

flyer

I had a PA22/20 and VG's, big tires, and repitch to a climb prop.
Great airplane, put your survival gear all the way back in your baggage compartment so you can get the tail down in a 3 point landing. Buy an extra tailwheel spring and have it re-arched at the local spring shop for $12. Add 1.5 inches more arch so you don't get tailwheel shimmy. Change it every annual. Keep it light. Change shock cords whenever they show the first signs of sag. Every two years for me, try a combination of a 1080HD and a 1280 HD. Join the Short Wing Piper Club, tons of good info.

I fly a 160hp Pacer and it has been a great airplane. In my opinion it does a lot of things pretty well. It scoots right along when you are trying to get somewhere, lands and takes off short enough, and every where you go someone comes up and says "A Pacer, eh? I flew one of those back in..."

I'm fairly new at this backcountry flying thing, but here are my observations for whatever they are worth. The key is to keep it light. I suppose this is true of any airplane, but my ~1500 ft/min solo and light climb rate turns into ~400ft/min at gross. Watch out for a way-aft CG. Maybe this is just my particular airplane, but I *hate* the way it flies in the upper right corner of the wt&balance envelope. I shoot for a CG location of about 50% to 75% of the way to the rear CG limit for the best combination of smooth(ish) landings and a good feel in the air. Fly when it's cool and BS when it’s hot. Again, probably true of any airplane without tons of power, but those short wings need a little extra help.

On my wish list I have VG's, 850 tires, a climb prop.... and a left side door!

Get an 82 inch Borer prop. It will make a large difference in climb and takeoff performance, though it will slow you down a bit.

MTV

I got my tail wheel check out in a PA-16. I think it was called a super cruiser. Is this about the same thing? Anyway it was a lot more capable airplane than I thought it would be. No flaps if I remember right, but it really didn't need any. Nice little airplane.
On this one the only thing I noticed was the aileron attach points had gotten loose. Other than that it seemed a solid airplane. Oh and it was the hardest airplane I have ever flown to land. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that my instructor weighed a good 350 lbs.

The 850 tires will add at least 10 more pounds. You can have your prop repitched for very little money.

You might think of 800 tires. They are much lighter. Weight is always critical.

flyer

a64pilot wrote:I got my tail wheel check out in a PA-16. I think it was called a super cruiser. ............. .

PA-16 is a Clipper. Kind of a pre-Pacer (sort of) 4-place short wing Piper. Came with an O-235. A friend has one with a 290-D2.

mtv wrote:Get an 82 inch Borer prop. It will make a large difference in climb and takeoff performance, though it will slow you down a bit.
MTV

How much will a climb pitched prop slow me down in cruise? I'm already the slowest one in my group of flying buddies. But the extra pull would be nice on t/o.

Thoughts? Thanks, Berk

Installing a Borer prop sounds cool. Do any modifications need to be done with the landing gear to increase prop clearance?

Kevin

What is the useful load of a PA20/22-150 and how much fuel will it carry and what is the comfortable range. How much grass do you need to get off hte round at lets say 5000 ft DA

Berk, I thought you had a 172 strait tail or do you have multiple planes in your stable.

Tim

The "borer" prop is an 82 incher as I recall. I guess there are minimum ground clearance issues when installing one of these. It's a matter of how much room between the prop (when vertical) and the ground when the airplane is sitting up on the mains in a level flying attitude. As I recall, 9 inches is the magic number--not sure about that though.
I don't believe the 82" prop is approved for the Pacer, but I have heard of people putting one on a Pacer and installing 26" Goodyear tires to get the required ground clearance-- all documented on the same 337.

Eric

lots of borer props on pa-20's around here.
most are on floats or tundra tires.
PM me if you are really interested in one- i can find out a minimum tire size for approval.

as far a maintenance issues- the good ol muffler AD, fuel selector AD, gear bungee condition, oil cooler mounting brackets (cracks) and oil cooler hoses (condition), generator operation, horizontal stab jackscrew condition.

when you get serious about a left hand door, contact trimmer aviation in willow, ak. he has an STC you can buy and build it yourself. it involves rerouting the fuel system around the selector area. well worth it in my opinion.

The PA22 is on my short list, and is really the only 4 seater on my list at all. It, or a Colt, would probably end up playing Tanker for the other guys in my EAA chapter on flyouts, hauling some extra gas for those guys, as well.

It'll be mostly a two person hauler, though we do have a baby, so I've been looking at two-seaters with a jumpseat (I've seen Colts and 150s with this option), though a good deal on a Tripacer would be even better.

There are some pretty cheap Tri's in the States now. At least with a Tri you can open the back door to put cargo/baby/whale skull/fuel in. Leave the nose wheel on, they don't land or take of any shorter with a tailwheel on.

I'll go against the flow and say don't worry about all the "Bling" stuff. Save your money for fuel, the more flying you do the better you will know (not in a biblical sense like some Supercub pilots seem to) the Aircraft. A well flown light Tri will get in and out of more spots than a heavy Pacer with huge wheels, VG;'s and all the considered necessary "Bling".

Last summer I flew a PA 22-20 from Bangor,ME to Anchorage,AK. I org. bought it as a stop gap until I could afford a "better bush plane". After spending a few hours in this plane I have a whole diferent view of its capibilities. Mine is a 135hp O290 D2, with 8.00's on it. It will do book weights and performance. As with all flying you should apply your personal limits for safety and confort zone, as there is nothing worst than flying with the knot in your stomach. I use 1800' for rwy lgt. and 3 people (600lbs) and 10-12 gals. of gas. I fly out of a sea level AP and the temps are mostly around 65 in the summer. So I would say the Pacer is the best bang for the buck on todays market. I would recomend a tail wheel thou, as you seem to have intrest in flying in the bush and there are major advantages to the tail wheel.

Last summer I flew a PA 22-20 from Bangor,ME to Anchorage,AK. I org. bought it as a stop gap until I could afford a "better bush plane". After spending a few hours in this plane I have a whole diferent view of its capibilities. Mine is a 135hp O290 D2, with 8.00's on it. It will do book weights and performance. As with all flying you should apply your personal limits for safety and confort zone, as there is nothing worst than flying with the knot in your stomach. I use 1800' for rwy lgt. and 3 people (600lbs) and 10-12 gals. of gas. I fly out of a sea level AP and the temps are mostly around 65 in the summer. So I would say the Pacer is the best bang for the buck on todays market. I would recomend a tail wheel thou, as you seem to have intrest in flying in the bush and there are major advantages to the tail wheel.

That's proof how good a Pacer is, Eddie thinks they're that good he had to say it twice.

Nice thread. I'm really looking into a Pacer for my first plane, fits my mission very well, and is relatively affordable to purchase and operate compared to other options.

Is there an STC to convert from yoke to stick in PA 22/20?