I'm about to do a minor panel refresh on my 180. I say minor because I'm trying to keep it under $10K.

Here's what I have now, except the 496 is long gone and I added an EDM-730 with CHT and EGT in the 3-inch hole at the top right above the ELT switch.

The main focus of the refresh is to replace the 2010 Aspen PFD with a new Aspen Pro Max PFD. Their new PFD has internal redundancy that allows me finally to get rid of the vacuum system and keep my IFR certification. So, the clunky vacuum attitude indicator and the suction gage plus all related plumbing and components are gone. I fly mostly in VMC and always in daylight, so I don't feel like adding an electric backup ADI. Plus, I'm cheap.

While I'm at it, I'm also thinking of removing the Garmin CDI that I never use. I'm planning to add some panel-mounted charging ports and (on the advice of my wife) a panel-mounted CO detector like the Guardian 551. And I might add a few probes to the EDM-730.

I'm keeping the Garmin 430W, the SL-30 backup nav/comm, and the Garmin GTX-330 that gets me ADS-B Out. I'd love to upgrade the transponder and ditch the Stratus puck that rides on the glare shield, but that will have to wait.

What am I missing? What should I add while I'm at it? And, I have three specific questions:

1. What power ports do you like, and why?
2. What CO detector do you like, and why?
3. After CHT and EGT, what are the best probes to have on an engine analyzer? I'm thinking MP and FF but am open to suggestions.

Thanks!

You sure you want to go with another Aspen?

I’d think two Gi275s would be much better, or even a 275AI and a G5 HSI to save money, or more budget friendly two G5s

Power port I like these, replace your clock with one as it’s also a chronograph and most of them display volts too, look pretty good in a panel too and don’t have glare plus I like the idea of less is more in a panel

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... -07292.php


Engine instruments wise independent cylinder CHT is critical for me, EGT is good for trying to get the most MPG, it’s a fine line between how much to add before just tossing in a extra 275 and replacing all your engine instruments, but labor can add up


CO, my fiancé has one of the new lightspeed headsets that reads out CO if it gets a above a selectable target, I think some of the portable sentry units have CO detectors too that talk to you via Bluetooth or through foreflight or something, other here probably have more info on the CO side

I would NOT get rid of the CDI, it doesn’t weigh much and stuff happens, it’s nice to have a backup, I don’t think I have ever flown IMC in a plane that didn’t have at least two navheads

How are your overhead/chart lights?

Isn't the Aspen design quite long in the tooth now? I am really surprised the haven't released a new design. Also surprised Garmin hasn't slapped two G5's or 275s together to make an Aspen 'killer'.

Shouldn’t the GTX 345 have ADSB-in? Mine does.

I installed an edm 730 in my 185 panel. I had a 700 with egt, cht, ff, and oil temp. With the upgrade to the 730, I added map, rpm, oil pressure, and oat. It’s basically an edm 830 based on the new sensors. I highly recommend adding the rpm, map and oat, it calculates % hp with those sensors. Even though it’s not a certified replacement for analog engine instruments, it’s amazing. Total upgrade cost from the edm 700 was $2000. For instruments, I went with the Uavionix AV30s with the external magnetometer. I’m awaiting the AV-HSI certification which will make it full up IFR (installing GNC355 and Trio AP soon). I’m a huge fan of the Garmin Aera 660 and 760. A 660 would fit right where your 496 was, it’s 10 times more capable and user friendly than the 2/3/496 series. As for usb power, I agree with previous comment regarding the mid continent combo power supply/digital clock, that’s coming to my panel soon. I’ve been flying behind my new panel for 2 years and absolutely love it. Light IFR has always been in the plans and I’ll finish off the package with the AV-HSI, GNC355, and Trio Autopilot. Because I do all of my own work, I will be into this panel for $30k when complete. Not bad.

Squash wrote:Shouldn’t the GTX 345 have ADSB-in? Mine does.

My mistake. I have a GTX 330, not a 345.

NineThreeKilo wrote:You sure you want to go with another Aspen?

C180_guy wrote:Isn't the Aspen design quite long in the tooth now? I am really surprised the haven't released a new design. Also surprised Garmin hasn't slapped two G5's or 275s together to make an Aspen 'killer'.

Thanks for the comments on the Aspen. I'll ask the question, but I think an Aspen replacement would be a simpler, easier, cheaper install. I've had mine for 14 years and have been happy with it, so there's that.

NineThreeKilo wrote:Power port I like these, replace your clock with one as it’s also a chronograph and most of them display volts too, look pretty good in a panel too and don’t have glare plus I like the idea of less is more in a panel

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... -07292.php

Perfect, thanks! That looks good.

NineThreeKilo wrote:CO, my fiancé has one of the new lightspeed headsets that reads out CO if it gets a above a selectable target, I think some of the portable sentry units have CO detectors too that talk to you via Bluetooth or through foreflight or something, other here probably have more info on the CO side

I have a portable CO monitor, and I've read about some of them in Aviation Consumer. But in the interest of simplicity, I want one that I don't have to think about. I don't want to keep the battery charged, wonder if the bluetooth works, figure out why I can't get the bluetooth to work, make sure the app is up to date, or any of that cool stuff. I want simple.

NineThreeKilo wrote:How are your overhead/chart lights?

Stock Cessna. But I don't fly at night so I don't care. And I keep a couple of chemsticks in my survival vest if I get desperate.

mpm wrote:I installed an edm 730 in my 185 panel. I had a 700 with egt, cht, ff, and oil temp. With the upgrade to the 730, I added map, rpm, oil pressure, and oat. It’s basically an edm 830 based on the new sensors. I highly recommend adding the rpm, map and oat, it calculates % hp with those sensors. Even though it’s not a certified replacement for analog engine instruments, it’s amazing. Total upgrade cost from the edm 700 was $2000. For instruments, I went with the Uavionix AV30s with the external magnetometer. I’m awaiting the AV-HSI certification which will make it full up IFR (installing GNC355 and Trio AP soon). I’m a huge fan of the Garmin Aera 660 and 760. A 660 would fit right where your 496 was, it’s 10 times more capable and user friendly than the 2/3/496 series. As for usb power, I agree with previous comment regarding the mid continent combo power supply/digital clock, that’s coming to my panel soon. I’ve been flying behind my new panel for 2 years and absolutely love it. Light IFR has always been in the plans and I’ll finish off the package with the AV-HSI, GNC355, and Trio Autopilot. Because I do all of my own work, I will be into this panel for $30k when complete. Not bad.

That's a beautiful panel! I appreciate the advice on the EDM. I'd like to get to percent HP, and Mike Busch says MP and FF is helpful for troubleshooting. So I think I'll head that way.

I used to fly some hard IFR in this plane, as in precision approach mins and long slogs in IMC. But I don't see that in my future as much as I once did. Light IFR is what I'm aiming for now! Your panel looks great for that.

FWIW a friend of mine had an aspen in his 180 for years & liked it--
he just recently upgraded to the newest version and likes it too.

I'm curious about losing the separate CDI-- isn't that required if you're gonna fly IFR using the 430?

double post

hotrod180 wrote:FWIW a friend of mine had an aspen in his 180 for years & liked it--
he just recently upgraded to the newest version and likes it too.

I'm curious about losing the separate CDI-- isn't that required if you're gonna fly IFR using the 430?

Thanks!

No on the CDI. All the data from the 430W gets displayed on the Aspen. It will also overlay VOR bearing pointers from the 430W and the SL30.

The only reason I have the CDI is so I can fly a partial-panel approach if the Aspen fails. So maybe I'll keep it for that, but realistically I'm probably going to VMC if I lose the Aspen. My thought process on IMC in this airplane is "I must be able to get to VMC before I run out of gas and daylight."

Panel advice is like dating advice... we all like different stuff.

My .02 after flying a lot of this stuff as well as installing a bunch:

Ditch the Aspen. They just don't have the muscle anymore... Like it or not, (yes subjective,) Garmin is the only game in town. The AV30s (after installing a couple) are not for prime time... I know others have had different experiences, but I have zero trust in the data, especially in IMC. That said... I do have a new and unused AV30 if anyone wants it. Was for a customer project, but we installed 275s.

GI 275s are really where you want to be... and with the HSDB architecture, so freaking simple to wire with the other modern Garmin stuff. If your on a budget, the G5s are still a solid bit of kit, but dont forget to take into consideration the increased labor dealing with the CANBUS stuff and the extra stuff needed like the GAD 29.

The issue you have is your current panel... the form factor and cut-up overlay make just swapping out the Aspen the "easy" route...

My suggestion (for whatever that's worth:) Buy a new overlay, make an adapter, and flush mount two G5s. The G5 AI/HSI kit with GAD29, GAD 13, and GTP 59 is usually around $5400. For under $6k you have your kit, and... any mechanic can install. On the flip side, for $8k you can have a way more robust system in the 275s, AND you can get rid of all that extra garbage clutter sitting in front of you. AS, TB, VSI, ALT, AH, CDI... it all goes away. Another $3600, add a 3rd 275 and you can remove EVERYTHING else. The rub is you'll have to have a Garmin dealer install and you've now more than doubled the budget. (easy to spend other folks money I know.)

For USB, I used to do install the Stratus, but have been doing all Garmin GSB's now. I usually do a type C/C on the pilot side, and an A/C on the copilot.

For the CO, I like the Guardian Aero 451-101.

Anyway, panel design is a really fun exercise. If you want to yap on the phone about it, I'm glad to help. (shoot a PM) Been down this road many times.

Good luck!

Greg-

Great post Bigrenna. Aspen really needs to come out with a next generation design, but that requires a lot of development and qualification investment. I would get one but it really sticks out far on the panel and flush mounting is difficult. Plus it requires a huge external antenna.

Greg thanks for your post! PM sent.

OK, so I got the 180 back from the shop today. Here's what I did:

-- Replaced the 15-year-old Aspen PFD with a new Aspen Pro Max with their AOA upgrade (we'll see how I like it)
-- Removed the vacuum system and all its components, which reduced the weight by a whole four pounds. Side note, I've had three vacuum or mechanical gyros fail in my flying life, so I'm glad to get rid of that eventuality. I'm not too worked up over four pounds, although it adds up.
-- Added a panel-mount CO detector
-- Replaced the analog clock with a digital clock and two power ports
-- Cleaned up the radio stack by moving the transponder and second nav/comm up

Several of you took time to make compelling arguments for a more elegant solution. I appreciate that! But I went with the easier/cheaper solution (good is the enemy of great). I'm more interested in function than form, and the setup I have more than covers my requirements.

Also, I realized that I'm doing avionics work on 5 year intervals. In 2010, I junked the whole 1980 panel and put in what you can see in the original picture. In 2015, I added ADS-B Out and got rid of the 496. In 2020, I added an engine monitor. In 2025, I did this stuff. Maybe in 2030 I'll replace the 430W, the GTX330, and the audio panel. But the older I get, the less hard IMC I fly and therefore the less fancy stuff I need.

New empty weight for this 1980 Cessna 180K is 1794, which leaves me a useful load of 1396. But I keep the back seats out so I can legally haul about 1415 pounds. It's a pig at that weight with an O-470U, so the conditions would have to be just right.

slowmover wrote:......
-- Removed the vacuum system and all its components, which reduced the weight by a whole four pounds. Side note, I've had three vacuum or mechanical gyros fail in my flying life, so I'm glad to get rid of that eventuality. I'm not too worked up over four pounds, although it adds up.
....

I'm surprised that removing your vacuum system took out such a small amount of weight.
I removed my vacuum system several years ago to install a single G5.
The vacuum pump itself was only 3.8#,
but with the air/oil separator, instruments, hoses, the removed parts weighed 14 pounds.

hotrod180 wrote:I'm surprised that removing your vacuum system took out such a small amount of weight.
I removed my vacuum system several years ago to install a single G5.
The vacuum pump itself was only 3.8#,
but with the air/oil separator, instruments, hoses, the removed parts weighed 14 pounds.

After reading your post I weighed all the parts that came out. Hoses, hardware, suction gage, mechanical ADI, and pump. They come up to 5 lbs 8 ounces. Seems like the A&P didn't account for the weight of the hoses in the updated W&B. No air/oil separator in my airplane.

So in my case four pounds is close... it certainly wasn't 14!

Here's what my removed stuff weighed:

So after a bunch of great posts and advice that may or may not have been taken. With out telling your better half. What did your refresh cost?

BTW. I fully appreciate the comfort of knowing a panel. The aspen offers a lot of info and would take a long time to be comfortable flying it.