This is an interesting topic and I can't believe how many people who have commented see things the same way as I. Prior to getting married I bought my house for less than 100K and in hindsight was smart enough to get married in the back yard so now the wife has no desire to leave our humble house due to the sentimental value from getting married here. During this same time period my friends were buying 250k houses on similair incomes which left little $$$ for fun stuff. My cheap house payment allowed me to save up and pay cash for a Piper Pacer and since upgrade to a 182 again on the cash plan. My friends think I have piles of money but if we compared W2's they would be shocked to see I don't make any more money than they do. They throw so much away on mortgage interest and car payments that they could easily have an airplane or similair toys if they would have bought a smaller house. If I didn't have an airplane I might have some extra money but it seems to soak up anything I have left at the end of the month.

Great topic Zane and one that no one ever wants to really talk about.

I thought about how I've come to own my own plane, and here's my short answer (as with many things in life the hard way is usually the right way - cash for toys). Well, I am simply to passionate about this topic to leave it with my short answer. My long answer (don't take this as me tooting my own horn please).

First, as most Americans, I didn't have a great understanding of money. I am part of the quick fix generation. Early on I didn't fully appreciate the terms sacrifice and discipline, but I thought I did.

I did what everyone that wants to have fun but has no money does... borrowed! I had student loans, I had credit cards, I had a townhome, I had a second rental townhome, I had a car payment, I had a small airplane (C140), I had a lifted Jeep, I had..... (I owe, I owe, so off to work I go!) At the age of 25 I was about 60K in debt NOT including both mortgages, AND I didn't see that as being a problem as "all my friends were doing it". A few months later my cousin told me about this guy Dave Ramsey, and I had a real wake up call. I figured if I was ever going to enjoy life, I better start getting my shit together. I sold what I felt necessary, but of course the cool Jeep and C140 I had to keep. So, instead I rented out my house and lived in our hangar (think middle of nowhere and not much), that ended up being so bad I felt that living in my car (a 1990 Honda CRX that cost 600) would be an upgrade. For the next 8 months I slept on couches, at work, and if need be, in my car. I didn't like free time either, so I picked up extra jobs, working as a jump pilot, a tow pilot, CFI, at IHOP, a gas station, did fencing, etc. Finally, my C140 and cool Jeep were no longer blessings, but were simply burdens, as they took money and I had no time to use them. I sold them both in 2008.

Since then, I've paid off all my of my debt besides and mortgages and moved back into my townhome. I also found out what a savings account is. Now I only use cash/debit and cut up all my old credit cards. I still drive a beater and could care less about my looks. (I have no idea why my wife dated me, and then married me, through all this either). I bought the Stinson in the spring of 2009, and had a lot of hesitation as I couldn't pay cash for the entire thing, but my family helped me with a generous loan. In turn I worked 70-90 hour weeks for 13 months to pay that loan off.

I have made a MESS of my finances, but I am blessed that I made some wise choices to clean my act up. I am now 30, and it's nice to actually bring home a paycheck and not live month to month, or week to week. The income I make is a laughable matter (I get the "how can you afford a plane?" all the time), but I feel I have more money than most people that make twice my income.

As others stated, it takes sacrifice and discipline long before you own a plane for it to be a blessing. I still feel I'm not "rich" enough to own a plane (Dave Ramsey would still call me an idiot for owning a plane, but I've come a long ways!), but lucky for me, my wife puts up with it as she knows how much passion/addiction flying is to me.

So, do your best to save your pennies and pay cash as"A borrower is slave to the lender".

Bought my first airplane at 16 a Luscome 8E with 2 high school buddies -and 32 airplanes and 6 helicopters ago . The U.S. Army retirement I get pays all the household expenses . I own a 6 year old pickup and wife has 10 year old car. I have several houses and other property -only mortgage is on house were in in Boulder city. No boats or RV's in our family. Mr. Annouious who ever you are what are you doing asking questions like that ???? What is your business and interest ?? I don't do partnerships any more on airplanes . I've been married 3 times (divorced twice) have 5 kids and 12 Grand kids .Present wife and I've been hitched for last 26 years .I really like being "retired" and hanging out around the airport and flying my own airplane(s).

One piece at a time, didnt cost me a dime...
Whats that red ryder? Negatory on the price of this here mochine, you could say I went right up to the factory and picked her up...

I share a 150 with my dad and brother it keeps me flying, and wanting something with more power. Im also into a project M-4 that Ive been collecting parts for and now need to get busy and finish it.

I was fortunate in that I bought a wrecked Cessna 120 at age 18 for 4,500. I have just added to it every time I sell a plane to get a new to you one.

I live (and work) in Sun Valley, Idaho. I am always blown away at how I deal with trust fund people who are receiving $40-60K per quarter and they are flat broke with no possessions besides a crappy/crashed Audi or Mercedes.

Then there is the guys who make $35-50K a year and they have "stuff." i.e. airplanes, and other toys.

I've been a pilot for 17 years, owned my own plane(s) for over 15 years, have never went into the RED for either plane, have a wife for over 35 years who understands WHY I fly even though she is not a flyer,and have friends (some on this site) who love to fly as much as I do or more. My biggest worry about flying is the damned medical..hope I run out of money, the wings fall off the plane, or I head West before my medical does!
..and yes Matt, eventually you have to pull your head out of your ass, get your shit together, and figure out (without lying to yourself) what your prioroties really are. ( by the way I think I was about your age when I finally figured this out!)
I'm now retired, debt free because this is what I've worked for for 50 years..hope I get to do this for a while before the grim reaper decides to bite my ass!
HC

We starved the first 15 yrs of married life and nearly lost our farm through the droughts of '75 and '76 that was followed by nearly losing the farm to the high interest and low crop prices of the '80's and of course nearly losing the farm to the drought of '88. Decided to sell the cattle and rented out the pasture after barely dodging two more bullets, one with the mad cow scares and the other was 9/11 that took cattle and grain checks way down. Decided to use that money instead for an investment in a biofuel plant and buy a little CH 701. I concentrated on making the cropping side of the farming profitable while Trans Canada built a pipeline through our property and wrote us a sorely needed check. Guess what, it also started raining and crops were never so good. The biofuel investment turned out to be perfect timing and paid a good dividend while Chinese rising incomes from getting our manufacturing jobs in the last 10 years allowed them to buy American crops to feed themselves. The rising prices from export demand drove our crop income up to the point that inspite of my former sucessess, I could afford the four place Tundra, if I built it myself and financed it for a while. So I did. Time is shorter when you start that project at 55 so instead of waiting to cash it out vs cashing in from age, I did a factory assist to get it done in a reasonable time. Yup, Self made man from nuthing but my own hard work, The Farm has been good to me and did I mention my wife moved up during this time to become Director of Nursing at a nursing home?

I think WWHunter said it for me...
and since I'm from Lassen County, I'll quote a country song: "This ain't your practice life..."
This might just be as real as it gets; better fly those airplanes!

In retrospect, the best financial move I ever made that relates to flying was busting my ass 38 years ago and buy 5 acres of raw ground, and later another adjoining 6 acres. I did this so I could fly my ultralight off my own place and have a place to live all in one. Shit in a hole in the ground the first 2 years, winter and summer. Hauled water, no well. No power except some 12 volt lights off the pickup battery. I moved onto the property after shaking hands with the rancher who owned it. It wasn't for sale, I had to convince him to sell, telling him I couldn't give him the 5 K down payment until I had moved all my "stuff" onto the property and sold some, probably be 6 months. He said that'd be fine (??!!) and a month early I handed over the 5 K and THEN we signed the papers!

Lots of union carpenter ovetime and working on the side for myself and I paid the 15 yr. note off in 10 years. Meanwhile I demolished a large grain warehouse (with one helper, no crane then either) by hand and re sold all the lumber and built my house with the best of it. I had been living in the shop which was the second structure I built after the hangar of course. 6 years ago I sold that 11 acres as more homes were being built nearer, so I pre emptively bailed out before anyone bitched about my flying. I was stunned when they told me what the whole shebang was worth, all that ass busting made me briefly a 1/4 millionaire plus a little. I then moved a mile away but away from the prime ski area real estate and again talked another rancher into selling, but this time a 40 acre chunk and paid in full. Built my new (small) house, shop and hangar (nice and big), (didn't sub anything out either) bought a newer crane, finished my new bird, put up another wind/solar and hydro electric system, and was broke again. I also shit in a hole in the ground on the new property the first year, but this time I used my new Kubota tractor 12" post hole auger to dig the frigging hole, progress! Lived in a borrowed 30 year old POS trailer the first year, in the hangar (built first again) the next year, and after completing the new plane THEN threw up the house. But I have everything I need and no bills, the only credit card is paid off in full every month and I get 1% back, I am constantly amazed how easy it is to get by even when the work is slow when you don't have debt. That Ramsey guy is right. And, I once again inadvertantly blundered into another great land deal, if I ever choose to re-sell. If it wasn't for flying none of this would have happened, but it motivated me like nothing else. I have long thought and said I CAN'T AFFORD TO QUIT FLYING!

Great post. Affording my fist plane has taken a lot of time and work. It took a about 6 months to find the perfect 172 (although I have been stalking trade-a-plane since I was twelve). I posted flyers at all my local airport to start a flying club, and I undercut all the schools by $55 dollars per hr. Once I got enough people interested, I purchased the plane via financing and aside from the down payment after 8 months I haven't paid a dollar for my 172. However I have paid for it with long nights of MX work, and flight instruction. Once its paid off, I will sell it and get an older 182.

It does get frustrating talking to people about owning a plane. I all ways have to explain to people that my plane cost less than there car. On top of that my plane is going up in value unlike the car they are driving.

RWM wrote:Although I'm a single owner now, a partnership got he here in a way that built experience and flying time in a way that was affordable for each of my financial positions at the time.

Same general story on my end, and I am thankful for the entry, but my partnership experiences were variable. Having a partner would save 2k-3k per year than sole ownership on the 182 if everything went well with the partnership (insurance, hangar, annual, maintenance), but things didn't go well. Hangar rash, burned valves, general disrepair...when I walked in wanting to fly, the state of the plane was less certain than had I just been renting. That has all reversed since taking it all over- deeply satisfying, safer, and plain fun. If I found metal in the oil some day, I'd likely be scrimping for quite a while to make up the difference between the engine reserve instead of splitting with a partner, but I'd feel better in the end.

On the other hand, partnerships have been very successful for most of the folks I know who are now in them.

TomKatz wrote:
Once you own a plane, you don't care what you drive.

That is the very best aviation bumper sticker I've ever heard. Would you mind terribly if I took that idea and ran with it?

My first plane was a '62 PA-22 for $4200 in the 80's. I was working framing and steel construction starting when I was 15- told 'em I was 18. I was a tall kid. My parents bought me 10 hrs of instruction when I was 15, and the rest of my income went to flying lessons and the plane. I flew it for a few hundred hours till the fabric literally started coming off. I sold it as a basket case when I went to college. I rented and flew hang gliders instead for lack of cash all through my 20's and from living abroad, met my other half, got my other half through a few degrees (with the medical school one being my secret retirement plan), and finally it was possible a few years back to dream about an 'affordable' ownership thing again.

Credit was never an option for me- I have no loan history at all aside from our first home mortgage and now our current home mortgage, both with no issues even through very tight times, and that makes me a rock bottom credit risk apparently- my score is lower than a guy I know with tons of bad credit card debt, a foreclosure, a bad loan on his car, and a divorce. So I don't bother- the workings of the credit system are a mystery to me. Actually, when I made inquiries for an airplane loan, my credit score dropped about 30 points inexplicably, making a pending re-fi on the mortgage impossible, and I started receiving weird junk mail about title loans, emergency credit counseling services, pawn shops, etc. To be perfectly honest, I am clueless how the credit system really works after all that, so I don't feel like getting involved with it. It is cash or nothing, just like it has always been. This means I will not likely own a fancy plane, but I feel better about it in the end.

This thread is verying insightfull and helpful or encouraging for future owners. I also find it very interesting that it seems like a number of people hold to the Dave Ramsey approach on money. No or very limited amount of debt. I'm in my mid 20's and my wife and I are busting it to free ourselves of our school loans to first and foremost to not be a slave to anyone and secondly free money up for things such as an aircraft or whatever we see worth it.

This thread/poll has given me more confidence that it's possible to pay cash for an airplane. All it takes is hard work and discipline which unfortunately is lacking in our country.

Last, it is so true about the stereotype of aircraft ownership and wealth. Everyone is blowing money somewhere just most are doing it on monthly payments for vehicles and credit cards. Paying for cash allows items to become blessings rather than curses.

Thanks to all those who have shared their experience!

Once you own a plane, you don't care what you drive.

That is typically true......
But odds are your wife will.

lc

I think I just figure out how I keep this double double happening.

I wake up each morning with a voice in my head. Now, don't jump to unwarranted conclusions here, the voice isn't telling me to clean the guns. It has a single message. My mantra I suppose. Whatever that is. The voice says, over and over; "I want, I want".

I've never been able to tell exactly what it is that the voice wants, but I've certainly tried. "Wanna buy a boat? Wanna buy an Airplane? Wanna fancy house? How about a new woman? Wanna new guitar? Wanna new camera?" These are basic themes. They have many variations.

I've worked very hard to keep the damn voice at bay. I keep hoping one day it will shut up. When I bought the Harley I knew in my heart that the new toy wouldn't last for long. I had hoped that it would be something that my wife and I could share with our closest friends who spend a lot of time together cruising the backroads of the west coast enjoying the scenery and each other. Turns out that my wife, despite trying very hard, is petrified of riding along on the back of a motorcycle. She hasn't got a clue how to crew a big yacht either. She really wanted to do the yacht thing; all that romance you know? Turns out I have to single hand 80,000 pounds of pure joy. How do you herd elephants with a conductor's baton? The motorhome sat for all but a few weeks a year. She hated to pay the storage and insurance fees and besides; she prefers sleeping on the ground in a tent or under the stars. So it goes.

We've had two airplanes in our life together. We used them and loved them. They were truly something we could share. Especially when we were working our asses off back in the '90s and could come home on a Friday evening, check the weather, make a decision, and two hours later have the tent set up at a country strip and be walking the dog to town for some dinner.

Then the voice says, "How about two airplanes?" "You know, one for akro and the other for travel." I can't win here.

So how do we afford all this shit? Find out what you're good at and get better than the next guy at it for starters. Then as mentioned by almost everyone, pay cash. I made a huge mistake with the damn yacht. Went through a life savings with it. Oh well. Too old to earn it again but I have all the financial basics covered by some pretty good life choices when I was younger. I took advice from others who had retired well. I don't take credit for that, I just did it because it seemed kinda like a good idea at the time. You'll probably live longer than you thought you would when you were twenty. Be aware of that. There is tomorrow to deal with.

If I can convince some idiot bastard's son to buy the Hatteras I suppose we'll be able to buy an airplane again. We just rescued a dog so I'll need something that will carry us both and have room for her too. Kitfox Super Sport? CH-750? I dunno. A nice airplane at a fair price. That's the goal. Meanwhile I'm living vicariously through all you fine people.

Emory and Mrs. Bored (she's a keeper and loves me in spite of it all)

I'm a Dave Ramsey fan and after some hard work and lessons I wish I'd learned earlier, I became debt free but the mortgage a couple years ago. My father passed away and left behind a massive collection of things that has basically became a full time eBay business selling it all. The share of money I get out of that, went into the bank and I bought a Stinson project with cash. When I needed parts, I saved up and bought them with cash. No credit cards or anything debt wise in our lives then but the mortgage. Well then I retired from teh military and go the job with CubCrafters. I needed to move and sell my house. So the right thing to do was sell the Stinson. I'm glad I did as I had to spend more money than expected to sell my house. Now I'm completely debt free, no mortgage or anything. I'd love to upgrade our vehicles but can't just yet. I also just quit my job and will be moving again here soon. No way I could've done that if I hadn't got disciplined with a budget and saved up cash and sold the Stinson. Hopefully I'll get the next phase of my life going again here soon and get back to saving cash for a plane again.

Emory Bored,
As I got older I developed tinnitus, a ringing in the ears from all the hours I spent on tractors. The benefit is it helps drown out the voices in my head. If you do not have this beneficial condition just tell people around you they have to speak louder if they want to be heard over the voices in your head. It worked for me for years and it even shortened visits from relatives.

Tadpole,
Are you no longer with CC ?