Question: How do you treat a fellow pilot after you found out that he had an off airport incident (CRASH)?

Do you find that you take a few steps back when you talk to him/her? As if you are going to catch it!

As long as he didn't crash someone else's plane & then leave them holding the bag. I've seen that happen a time or two, that's the reason I'm not too big on the flying of borrowed airplanes. Too easy for some people to rationalize their way out of taking responsibility for their fuck-ups and making things right, when push comes right down to shove. I know of one guy who's crashed borrowed airplanes twice & left both owners in the lurch. He's a likable guy but I have no respect or use for him now. Hard to believe but he's still flying borrowed airplanes...some people are slow learners I guess.

Eric

I have about 800 hours in a other peoples airplanes, and many off airport landings on dry lakes, and backcountry places.


Having said that, I only fly airplanes that I work on, including engine rebuilds. So I have lots of airplane, to trade work for time in....I also buy extra insurance, and am covered by the corp I work for when using them for work travel.

It can be win-win if done correct. I am thinking of buying my own a/c though...as my best friend has a girl friend in Idaho, and she is a pilot, so the plane (Archer) is almost never around anymore. The other plane is an A-36, so I can't go anyplane fun with it, and the 70k worth of glass. Jeesh, it's worthless to me most times, as the owner thinks it's a DC-10 and should be flown like one at all times. I like camping, not clubing.

For me it would depend on the circumstances of the "crash". Mechanical, just a bad day, or blatent head up ass.
Other factors would be frequency of said activities for one individual, and as many have noted already how the situation was rectified by the "crasher".
In general I treat people the same before and after, I'm just less apt to let them fly my aircraft after an incident (not if it was mechanical failure of course).
Keep in mind that I have "dinged" a few myself so I see it from the dingers side too. For me two were purely mechanical and I salvaged what I could with what I was dealt, and two were head up ass. The head up ass incidents were both wire strikes. Thankfully neither resulted in a crash, one did absolutely no damage at all other than scrapes in the paint. Unfortunately the second was a bit more serious and cost a prop and engine teardown for arcing plus some sheetmetal work to a flap and boom hangers.
It may seem odd but in the ag circle those things (unless you just keep on day after day!) are just taken in stride and forgotten about so I probably got off easy due to the environment.

One of the coolest old guys at our airport just past away recently. He flew for the Air corp in alaska and then for the oil companies. He once planted his personal 182 in the trees at the end of our runway on a christmas morning. Was a close call for him and his passenger. After that he got an honorary chair in the lounge, cuz you gotta remember those that have crashed have done stuff we still are practicing

My general rule of thumb: If your an ass before your crash your still an ass! If you were cool before your crash now you're a cool guy with a higher insurance premium.

I guess I try to treat another pilot like I would like to be treated, I have made a couple of bone head mistakes and some people were cool and some were total asses about it. The few times that I bent any metal were very minor and were weather related, still I appriciated those that were sympathetic and understanding and disliked those few fools that pulled a superior attitude. A couple of those superior attitude smart asses are dead now from thier own mistakes. Remember, any landing you can walk away from is a good one and if you can still use the airplane it was a great one!!!!

Shane

N18NV wrote:Question: How do you treat a fellow pilot after you found out that he had an off airport incident (CRASH)?

Do you find that you take a few steps back when you talk to him/her? As if you are going to catch it!

Why,,, what did you do ???

I ask the question only because after my CRASH about half the pilots that I came in contact with treated me like I just came out of steerage. One group of local pilots even started false rumors about the mishap.

What happened to cause the crash. It is still unknown. Maybe at the next BBQ and a few beers I would love to here your best guess as to what happened.

At least you can talk about it.

A friend of mine had an engine failure in an SR-22 Cirrus due to a fuel failure. The shop had reversed the fuel gage wiring and did not tell my friend. I guess the forgot while they were trying to fiqure out a sender problem......if you can believe it.

My friend got all kinds of trouble from the pilots at the lunch place for not popping the chute, and instead landing in a cotton field. Said all kinds of untrue things. It damaged one wheel pant, and busted a light. The people who did the bad work helped with that rumor I'm sure.

On the other hand, I have a really long story about one guy, who should not be alive, but for dumb luck and too much money.

Holy wierd voodooo batman.
What do you mean it's unknown? There have been a lot of twisted, burnt, sunk, and cratered wreckage that answers have been pulled out of. I gots to know this one!
As for the dude flaming out the cirrus, were his watch and fuel stick broken too? Because when I was like five my parents taught me some cardinal rules of aviation and one of the first ones was NEVER TRUST THE FUEL GUAGES!

First, if you tear it up, you fix it, no questions asked.
Secondly, we learn from our mistakes and from the mistakes of those around us. Talking about your less than stellar moments and analyising what went wrong and brainstorming ways to prevent and/or correct the problems is very constructive.
It is not an issue of placing blame or justifying what you did or didn't do, its about learning and becoming a better pilot.
Jay

Insurance company bought the airplane. NTSB and FAA looked at the plane. It had spark, !0gal plus of fuel, they looked at fuel pumps all OK. Logs all checked out pilots paperwork checked out. The airplane engine quit for unknown reasons. The airplane on down wind just before turning base did not want to go any more. At 800' agl you have about as long as it takes to read this post before you kiss the ground. I can tell you first hand, airplanes do not want to stay in the air without the banging noise up front.

I personally feel it was visitors playing games. 30 minutes after I crashed two guys in Reno did the same thing with a different outcome.

N18NV wrote:I ask the question only because after my CRASH about half the pilots that I came in contact with treated me like I just came out of steerage. One group of local pilots even started false rumors about the mishap.

What happened to cause the crash. It is still unknown. Maybe at the next BBQ and a few beers I would love to here your best guess as to what happened.

I figure, "There but by the grace of god go I" I remember walking away from a C-150, afraid to look back, just sure I was going to see some wrinkled sheetmetal. ( Yup, I dropped her in pretty hard ) I figure if I fly long enough I'm going to bend something. I know my pride has taken a beating over the years, as well as a few aircraft. So far, nothing I've done has left a permanent mark. That could change tommorrow. I know somebody that drug a wing on his beautiful Stearman. All I said was "anybody flying as much as he does has to ding something at some point"

As long as you can get past it, who cares if they can't. Just my .02...

Mark

18NV,
What kind and how old of an airplane?
I had a 1968 Cessna 185 amphib. quit me due to a "hairball" that had formed over the almost thirty years of service with original fuel bladders/system. It completely blocked off the left rear pickup tube. So in a right - climbing turn with 15 or less gallons in the left side she'd quit. the wierd thing was that the owner had it happen about ten months earlier and went through "everything". The plane flew about 150 hours trouble free in between incidents. It took that very combo to starve it out and I guess we only did it once every 150 or so hours. After it happened to me he had EVERYTHING torn out and replaced and the "hairball" was found while removing the fuel bladder from the line. It was really puzzling when the mechanics could pull it out and fire it up the next day with no problem after he dead sticked it into the Willamette river and I dead sticked it onto a taxiway downwind!
Just a thought but the age of the plane is very relevant in this case.

"NEVER TRUST THE FUEL GUAGES"

Yes, that is forsure. Turns out they ran out on one tank and had lots in the other, but messed it up due to the senders being switched...so in the
mess, they switched to the empty tank thinking it was the one with fuel. Kind of low at the time too.

Dumb, I know.

I took a dime size spot of paint off the outside edge of the tail on my old cardinal 177B. I was tired, had more fuel on the right, my sister (only 120 lb) in the right in the back, my 210 pound friend in the right, and a 20 knot cross wind from the left.....dumb.

After I went around, I had her move over to the left and it was a LOT better. Tired flying is not really very smart, and I learned something for free that day.

Shit happens. If you're gonna be critical of another persons errors and misjudgements you're just gonna find yerself moving to the head of the line for the next time shit happens.

Nobody's perfect, and flying machines are built by imperfect men, but some of us are more skilled at getting out of the trouble we find ourselves in. If we fly long enough eventually it catches up to all of us no matter how skillful we are. Hopefully we're still around to take the ribbing from our buddies when all is said and done.

That's my philosophy on the matter...