GumpAir wrote:A man's gotta pick his battles, and I haven't met a Cessna 206 yet that I'd want to die for.

Now fuck with my 180 or 207... Then we'd be up to ramming speed and taking out as many as we could before they got me.

Gump

Well said Mr Gump

1SeventyZ wrote:There's no way you could get me to take my plane to Mexico..

Ok, I'll do it for you,,, as a favor...

As Iceman said, being a gringo with a gun in Mexico is instant jail. I can't even imagine what they would do if you shot a mexican national, drug dealer or no.

The mexican officials have been scamming us gringo's with various methods of bribes, extortion and schemes for decades. We have put up with it for a long time because the local's are genuinely good people and even with the payoffs it was still a good deal. It is the mexican government that is crooked as a dog's hind leg.

I have heard (maybe Iceman can confirm) that TJ is a ghost town due partly to the pharmacy trade, that is in cahoots with the local doctors, police, attorneys and judges. People try to buy their prescriptions across the border to save money, the pharmacies pass along the buy to the local police that make an arrest based on the person not having a prescription from a mexican doctor. By the time your bribe the doctor for a prescription, pay the attorney, tip the judge, pay the fine to the police, your cheap prescription has cost you several thousand dollars not to mention the time in the TJ jail. (not a nice place)

Anyway, I agree with MTV, cut 'em off at the pockets ! Let the bastards (corrupt officials) starve. It's too bad it's going to effect the locals but they need to throw the bums out and start over. IMHO

I have been to Baja a few times in a 182. Just about all dirt strips. The folks are really nice I have had no problemo. It is really too bad that the situatuion has deteriorated to such an extent.

Baja Bush Pilots have done a great job for GA down there but there is only so much Jack can do.

For the time being, I am pretty well finished.

Tim

I have been down to Baja a few times when I had my Scout and never had problems or even issues with the Federales, but that can always change.

I was going to fly down this last winter until I started reading several reports of surfers getting robbed at gun point and sexually assaulted in remote areas. Check out the link below about a young couple this last winter. SEVERAL surf schools and adventure companies have suspended operations in Baja because of these incidents. The webchat rooms are filled with situations like this recently.

Its gotten really bad down there. It could happen in the US, I guess.

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2 ... y-venture/

There have been numerous instances where American surfers are abducted and robbed and yes sexually assaulted in the past year. Their solution is to still go down there but in large groups. I'ts just a matter of time before they get hit by larger groups. I guess there's the same mentallity in our Pilot brothers. " I;ve been down there lots of times and never had a problem." Why anyone would want to take a chance with their family or airplane for that matter is beyond me. "Oh it can happen here too." Yeah right. Not likely... I remember a time years ago I was in tijuana with relatives from the east who wanted to see TJ . I was still on SDPD at the time and we were in a shop and the shop keeper was trying to sell a switch blade to a 12 year old who in turn was trying to convince his mother it was OK> Meanwhile the shop keeper, who knew all to well the illegality of the knife in the US kept refering to the mother as "Basura"..(Trash) He would tell her it was legal and end his sentence with Basura as though it was a term of respect. "See Basura it is ok. It is not Illegal Basura.... I Flashed him My SDPD badge and in spanish told him he was the Basura and that he knew it was illegal I then Identified myself to the Mother and advised her what might happen if she tried to bring the knife into the us and was found out.... Long story but don't tell me how the locals love us and all that crap. Like I said in another thread on this site a while back....There's a line in Little Big Man that says it all. "Mr. Custer, YOu go down there"

Why anyone would want to take a chance with their family or airplane for that matter is beyond me. "Oh it can happen here too." Yeah right. Not likely...

I've seen shit in this country that would blow the doors off of anything I've ever heard of in Mexico. If you've been a cop, you should have, too. Ya, I'd rather take my chances here rather than there, but people are people...it doesn't change with latitude. You can get murdered with a blow torch here just as easily as there.

I was still on SDPD at the time and we were in a shop and the shop keeper was trying to sell a switch blade to a 12 year old who in turn was trying to convince his mother it was OK

Are you kidding me? My sister bought me a switch blade in Mexico when I was ten...nice knife, all things considered. Worked better and longer than most of things I owned which were made in America...Ok the switch blade was probably made in Italy. But still, owing a switch blade is completely legal in California, so long as it's in your house. Illegal to transport it to your house? Who gives a crap...it doesn't even register on the scale of crime in this country.

Offended that the sales person referred to a American National as "trash"? Big deal...there are small people everywhere. Ain't nothing to get worked up about.

Mexico is what it is...to you it seems to be threatening and distasteful. To others it's a paradise. To me it's neither...it's just Mexico. The balance of power and responsibility shifts when you go there, but that's a given. It shifts when you go to Arkansas.

Never leave the US because something bad might happen? May as well never leave your house for the same reasons.

Been to Mexico a few times. The experience seems to vary depending on the state and region and distance from urban centers and probably depending on a few things I am clueless about. As a general rule I stay away from border towns and touristy places when I travel. I can only judge based on my experience, and it has been favorable.

I do not imagine it serves well to generalize an entire country. I will probably not fly there, but I understand a good deal of fun landing all over --beaches and small dirt strips and flat spots here and there-- was once the norm, especially in Baja. Things change. Some get better, some get worse.

Stealing planes at gunpoint seems almost unheard of here, but murder by blow torch and deviant sexual assault, well we seem to be keeping pretty good pace with the rest of the free world. You pays your nickle; you takes your chances.

As far as I am concerned, you can keep about everything south of Ketchikan --too many people equals much madness. Worth a visit but....

Now as for switchblades, my dad had one of the older, orange handled, military style, parachute swithcblades. Man that thing was cool. Still, I always wanted one of those Italian stiletto looking things. Knives illegal, what is next? As a kid I thought it was ridiculous --still do.

Hammer,

Are you suggesting that that the element and the human characteristic share a similar status in the known universe?

Hammer wrote:
Mexico is what it is...to you it seems to be threatening and distasteful. To others it's a paradise. To me it's neither...it's just Mexico.

Yep. For sure if you are flying a Cessna 182 or 2?? you should watch your ass or even consider not flying down there, otherwise you are a citizen of the world, and crime is omnipresent in every country I have ever been to. Closest I have ever come to having my ass handed to me (outside of work) was London, closely followed by Memphis.

It is true that there are risks and bad people wherever you go, and I would not let that necessarily impede my travels.

But, would you go to Iraq as a tourist right now? Lots of interesting things go on there, lots of really historic places to see......

Read a book called "God's Middle Finger". It describes goings on in the Sierra Madre, which is perhaps the most lawless section of Mexico. Nevertheless, it offers an interesting perspective on the "law" in Mexico.

When the police are REGULARLY on the take, REGULARLY execute people at the behest of the narcos, etc I think you have to consider this a dangerous country to visit. Granted the Sierra Madre is "out there", but the same government has jurisdiction throughout, and the same morals pervade that government.

Hopefully one day this will change.

Note that I did not suggest in my earlier post that I won't go any place that isn't perfectly safe. I simply stated that Mexico, like Iraq, is now too far off the scale for me to want to visit.

And, as I noted, any Norte Americano who comes back to the States and complains about poor treatment in Mexico has only himself to blame, in my opinion.

MTV

I was referring to a time over 35 years ago with regards to the knife. It was illegal then and may not be now but Customs at the time was impounding all of them as well as the people who brought them in. Probably not a big deal now and I don't know the legality of it now either. My point was with the asshole shopkeeper who makes his living off american tourists and considers them trash. Ok so you find assholes everwhere and crime is rampant here but specifically if you are a tourist and crime against tourists are running rampant I don't see the logic of going to a place where you are more likely to become a victim...Forget it I should have known I'd get an argument from Hammer.

MTV has a point.

The risk/reward ratio just took a big jump with this latest violent act that involved the aviation network. We aviators usually avoid the social sewage that accumulates along our border by hopping over it and landing in the nicer places further south. TJ? Why would anyone ever go there? We also avoid the current flock of roadblocks and checkpoints that have caused folks a lot of anxiety recently.

It wasn't always this way and, hopefully, it will get better in the future. I'm glad I had the opportunity to see it as it was, when I had that early morning flight low over the lagoon and saw whales blowing rainbows from their heads.

So what's wrong with Canada anyway? I can practically understand what they say and I always wanted to see Banff from the air.

YB

mtv wrote:Yellow,

How many planes do you hear being plane jacked in THIS country? How about Canada? Jamaica? Etc.

Don't go there. Take your tourista money somewhere else till the corrupt government and the people of Mexico are willing to deal with their problems.

Just my philosophy. I have NO sympathy for anyone who loses their airplane in Mexico, frankly. It happens with sufficient frequency that it should be a clue.

MTV

I agree, We have plenty of places to go in our own country. They are getting enough of our $$$ as it is. Bob

Hammer wrote: I've seen shit in this country that would blow the doors off of anything I've ever heard of in Mexico.

And there is the problem. You are pontificating about what you have heard.

I have been visiting Mexico for many years. In fact, I have family movies (super 8, haha) of my brothers and I scuba diving at San Carlos when I was 15 years old. That would be over 30 years ago. My father used to take us to Mexico every other winter for years. In addition as an adult, I have been multiple times to Cozumel, Cancun and Cabo San Lucas as well as many other places in Baja. I have also flown our 206 to San Felipe, so I know a little of the people and the government.

Time and drugs have changed Mexico. Like I said previously, for the most part the locals are good people that dearly want tourism to continue as it is the ONLY income those people have. Their are some local officials that also will do anything to make it safe and easy for the gringo to vacation there,,, if possible. These are the folks the Baja Pilots work with and have a relationship with.

About ten years ago I started seeing the change. I was in Cancun and took a cab south to Playa Del Carmen to catch the ferry to Cozumel, the federales had a chain stretched across the highway and they were stopping every car. When we had cleared the road block I asked the cab driver what was up. He said he was not supposed to talk about it. I pressed him further and he related that the Mexican Mafia had recently been running smash and grabs as well as hotel invasions in Cancun and they were trying to keep it quite so it didn't hurt tourism.

The drug cartel and mex. mafia is much bigger and stronger today than ten years ago. In addition they have intimidated, bribed and infiltrated much of the government. The media, such as it is, is government controlled and they are doing everything possible to try and save the tourism industry.

Want more ? Check out this Link

To compare criminal activity here with Mexico is absurd. First, you do hear, sometimes ad nauseum, about the most heinous crimes that happen around our country. Not so in Mexico. Second, if your arrested here, justice will almost certainly prevail. In Mexico you'll get anything but justice.

"Paradise" ? I don't think so !

Yellowbelly wrote

I always wanted to see Banff from the air.

I was lucky and my first big trip in the PA12 was to Banff. I landed at the grass airstrip that is no longer there.

It appears to me that you guys need to get a laugh about now. AND if you don't laugh at this I will be forced to post my rant.
Ford


I am over 60 and the Armed Forces thinks I'm too old to track down
terrorists. You can't be older than 42 to join the military. They've got the
hole thing ass-backwards. Instead of sending 18-year olds off to fight,
they ought to take us old guys. You shouldn't be able to join a military
unit until you're at least 35.

For starters:
Researchers say 18-year-olds think about sex every 10 seconds. Old
guys only think about sex a couple of times a day, leaving us more than 28,000
additional seconds per day to concentrate on the enemy.

Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky soldier is
a dangerous soldier. 'My back hurts! I can't sleep, I'm tired and hungry' We
are impatient and maybe letting us kill some asshole that desperately
deserves it will make us feel better and shut us up for a while.

An 18-year-old doesn't even like to get up before 10 a.m. Old guys
always get up early to pee so what the hell. Besides, like I said, 'I'm tired and
can't sleep and since I'm already up, I may as well be up killing some
fanatical son-of-a-bitch.

If captured we couldn't spill the beans because we'd forget where we put
them. In fact, name, rank, and serial number would be a real brainteaser.

Boot camp would be easier for old guys. We're used to getting screamed
and yelled at and we're used to soft food. We've also developed an
appreciation for guns. We've been using them for years as an excuse to get
out of the house, away from the screaming and yelling.

They could lighten up on the obstacle course however. I've been in combat
and didn't see a single 20-foot wall with rope hanging over the side, nor
did I ever do any pushups after completing basic training. I can hear the
Drill Sgt. in the 'New army' now, 'Get down and give me ... er .. One.'
Actually, the running part is kind of a waste of energy, too. I've never
seen anyone outrun a bullet.

An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him. He's still learning to
shave, to start up a conversation with a pretty girl. He still hasn't
figured out that a baseball cap has a brim to shade his eyes, not the back
of his head.

These are all great reasons to keep our kids at home to learn a little
more about life before sending them off into harm's way.

Let us old guys track down those dirty rotten cowards terrorists. The last
thing an enemy would want to see right now is a couple of million pissed off
old farts with attitudes and automatic weapons who know that their best
years are already behind them.

If nothing else, put us on border patrol....we will have it secured
the first night!

Share this with your senior friends. It's purposely in big type so
you can read it !!

Ford,

That is funny, and I'm definitely in that age category.

Hope your migration north goes well. Still cool and rainy here, but windy to make up for it.

MTV

Yellowbelly wrote:MTV has a point.

The risk/reward ratio just took a big jump with this latest violent act that involved the aviation network. We aviators usually avoid the social sewage that accumulates along our border by hopping over it and landing in the nicer places further south. TJ? Why would anyone ever go there? We also avoid the current flock of roadblocks and checkpoints that have caused folks a lot of anxiety recently.

Have a friend who travels extensively. His impression after touring through mexico was that in the touristy areas there's a real attitude by the mexicans that they're going to take the rich gringos for as much as they can and the tourist attitude seemed to be were going to try to get as much as we can out of these mexicans.

Get away from the tourist areas and people were very friendly.

Everything has risk. Everyone needs to decide for themselves if going to a certain country, climbing a mountain, nude sheep wrestling falls in their personal comfort zone.

Yellowbelly wrote:So what's wrong with Canada anyway? I can practically understand what they say and I always wanted to see Banff from the air.

YB

Their micro-brews aren't as good.... oh man, this is going to end in the Hot Air thread.

Yellowbelly:As a Canadain resident I can give you a partial answer. How about over $6 gal for av gas? How about the minute you cross the border you are charged for "services" from Nav Canada. How about no handguns? How about $48 for a 1.75 litre of Black Velvet? And it is not uncommon for Americans to be told that "we are out of fuel" when trying to buy avgas in some remote areas.

You guys did it to me. I wasn't going to say anything but now I have to. Some of us bitch about the above items in Canada as well as their well known tax policies. It is still a great country. It is different. It did not support the Iraq war. Should we treat them with disrespect or not visit their country?

Mexico, I am also a legal resident there. I have had a plane stolen in Baja. I have had people try and screw me on about anything they think they can get away with. I have put up with attitude because I was non Mexican. I have also stayed away from the border cities, late night drunk escapades, drugs, loud, big mouth people in general. I enjoy cheap, relatively speaking, avgas, cheap food, no taxes to speak of, wonderful easy going people who would go way out of their way to help in anyway, same as most rural Americans will do also.

If you think attitude against Americans is only in Mexico, you are mistaken. Try France, hell since Bush has been in office, try the rest of the world. I ask my friends in BC to introduce me as a friend and a pilot, not as an American. I am not ashamed to be an American, but I want people to judge me on how I am, not a sterotype caused by actions of governments.

For those of you that don't want to travel to Mexico, your choice. I sure would not camp in remote places that are CLOSE to the border, very bad people do bad things there. I also wouldn't be caught dead in Compton, CA late on a Friday night. You have to keep your eyes and ears open, and generally look out for yourself.

The most annoying attitude I have experienced consistently was from young snowboarders working in retail sales in Mammoth Lakes. I also had King radios stolen out of a 206 in Mammoth before I had a hangar. Thieves are all over the place, worldwide. Injustice is the same. If life was fair, I would be rich and owning many airplanes and have the time to fly them wherever I wanted. I missed out on that but I am greatful for what I am able to do and I give my decisions lots of thought. I could have ended up in a mud hut in some god forsaken country instead of living where I do. I wonder if writing this will be one of my more memorable decisons? Ford

Ford Wilson wrote:The most annoying attitude I have experienced consistently was from young snowboarders working in retail sales in Mammoth Lakes.

Seriously! I find this attitude characteristic of most retail and food service staff in ski towns.

GroundLooper wrote:...nude sheep wrestling

Fear the dingleberries...