×

Message

Please login first

Backcountry Pilot • Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Have problems with your aircraft? Maybe just questions about how best to tune or adjust something? Regs or maintenance? Need to know the best way to do something?
19 postsPage 1 of 1

Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

I am wondering if any BCP'ers might know what made this "clunk" sound today.

After a normal start of my IO-520 with MT prop, the engine idled perfectly for about 10 seconds before a very brief but noticeable "clunk" was felt. I initially thought that maybe I had hit something, but the feeling was definitely more like something from within the engine made the clunk, or maybe like a wrench dropped onto my cowl from 6 inches. It is hard to describe, but perhaps it would be like hitting a small log while paddling in your canoe?

Engine shut down was normal. Prop looked normal. No oil anywhere. Engine restart was normal. Run-up normal. Flight normal.

I have pulled the cowl and intend to have my mechanic poke around. In case anyone suspects a starter issue, I have a Hartzell Energizer starter mated to an old-style adapter. Could it be a disengage issue?

Thanks to anyone who cares to throw any ideas my way. And if you made it this far, at least you can enjoy this photo I took while on an evening walk at the Fairbanks float pond on Wednesday. It is such a quintessential AK flying scene.

Image
Squash offline
Supporter
Posts: 605
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Wild guess but could a counter weight have been stuck a little on the crankshaft?
180Marty offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:59 am
Location: Paullina IA

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

180Marty wrote:Wild guess but could a counter weight have been stuck a little on the crankshaft?
This was my first thought when reading the post as well.
A1Skinner offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 5186
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:38 am
Location: Eaglesham
FindMeSpot URL: [url:1vzmrq4a]http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0az97SSJm2Ky58iEMJLqgaAQvVxMnGp6G[/url:1vzmrq4a]
Aircraft: Cessna P206A, AT402/502/602

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

180Marty wrote:Wild guess but could a counter weight have been stuck a little on the crankshaft?


That's a thing? :shock:
Zzz offline
Janitorial Staff
User avatar
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: northern
Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Thank you for the input. Like Zane, I wondered, "sticking counterweights....is that a thing?"

My mechanic looked over the engine and didn't see anything awry. The prop looked fine. So he started looking at things in the airplane like the fire extinguisher and the seat belts to see if maybe something could have fallen.

We had been camping and among a bunch of other things loaded into the plane, my wife had a 20# bag of rocks piled atop some bags. I don't remember where it ended up, but could it have been something like a bag of rocks slides off another bag onto floor after startup?

So...maybe counterweights....or maybe a bag of rocks....?

Gratuitous photo of camping spot.
Image
Squash offline
Supporter
Posts: 605
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

I can tell we fly very different airplanes. If someone attempted to board my plane with a 20 pound bag of rocks I would need to do some careful math.

Hope it's something simple
aftCG offline
User avatar
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:55 pm
Location: Tacoma
Aircraft: Kitfox series 5

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Could have been the rocks. I've had a seat belt fall off a seat that made a good clunk as well.
A1Skinner offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 5186
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:38 am
Location: Eaglesham
FindMeSpot URL: [url:1vzmrq4a]http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0az97SSJm2Ky58iEMJLqgaAQvVxMnGp6G[/url:1vzmrq4a]
Aircraft: Cessna P206A, AT402/502/602

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Here’s a measure for weight allowances that might work for you. Tell your passengers: if you can hold it out at arms length for a full minute, you may then put it in the airplane. :D
Pinecone offline
User avatar
Posts: 996
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:37 pm
Location: Airdrie
Aircraft: Cessna A185F

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Several years ago I was flying as a hired gun for an outfit that found itself tight on airplanes during the busy season. As such, myself and another pilot who based about 50 miles away were sharing an airplane. His airplanes was down for extended MX, and being the low man on the totem pole, we would be sharing the one I was assigned to. The deal was, one of us would start the nights works and work until we were done then fly out to the others strip, were the next pilot would hot seat the ship and fly out the night. The next night he'd be first one to fly. We had a pickup truck worked in the rotation so that the pilot who flew first had a way back home.

The pilot I was teamed with was a 30+ yr. veteran pilot who cranked out the work... or pushed the airplanes depending on your perspective :lol:
He was a 'pilot's' pilot kind of a guy, who knew how to handle an airplane and a race car. And could work on either equally well. A ball cap and earplug kind of spray pilot who knew the airplanes better than most mechanics, getting in one behind him was never a remote concern. Specially for a much younger, less experienced fool like myself. In fact getting in an airplane behind him (never mind that it was my airplane) was almost like having Kirby Chambliss land next to yo and asking if you wanted to take his Edge 540 for a whirl :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

The one fly in the ointment... Early on he had let on that he hated flying the airplane I was assigned to, and watching him near it, you could almost feel the resentment in the air as he set it up.

One night he pulled on to my loading pad just a few minutes later than he had said he would on the radio, and on climbing out of the Thrush I noticed he was white as a ghost. I asked if he was feeling ok, and he said he physically he felt great, but he just got spooked pretty bad. You'd think that'd be fairly common spraying at night, but not for a pilot who had been doing it for longer than the company owner had been alive :lol:

After a little prodding he finally fessed up that he had run up to a wire he was jumping a little tighter than he had been, and consequently pushed over pretty aggressively on the far side. This is pretty poor form, but sometimes shiv happens...At the top of the push he described a super loud metallic bang that he said he could actually feel. Not like a loose wire or tin slapping a frame tube, or a loose tie down in the baggage, this was a substantial clunk of metal. His immediate thought was that a tube had sheared in the fuselage. But after babying it through the rest of the load he could find no abnormal flight attributes, and after returning for his next load neither he nor his loader could find anything out of place with it.

Although I really looked up to this pilot's skill and mechanical aptitude, the color of his skin at that moment wasn't jiving with the way he was trying to convince me that the ship was good to go... So as soon as the little pick up pulled off the pad I set the fire to the off position, and proceeded to spend the next hour trying to convince myself all the big pieces of the ship were still in their correct locations.

Flying out the rest of the night, I treated that bird with the most gingerly touch I think I have ever handed a work plane, and I am certain I felt and heard more creepy crawlies than a moonless night could produce. At some point I thought that I could actually feel the individual strands of cable on the controls as they ran across the pulleys :oops: . But of course, the problem never returned, and the old girl performed flawlessly.

After a (mentally) long night, I did a very thorough post flight and still couldn't find anything, so I pulled the tie downs and gust locks out of the baggage compartment. In a typical Thrush the baggage is directly behind the pilots upper body and shares a bulkhead with the seat back. The top is open to the canopy, which goes up to a small peak formed by the roll bar and bulkhead.

Shining around my flashlight around the now empty baggage still grasping for clues, it hit me like a sack of potatoes.... there still stuffed in the peak of the canopy was a quart (turbine oil still comes in old school metal cans) of oil. Literally wedged / dented into the peak.

Tremendously relieved I peed.... I resented the fact that we were short on planes, and high on pressure.... resented the fact that I got in the airplane without finding the can, and resented the fact that all of us knew the pilot well enough to know that if he felt something, he felt it... Yet we (I) still pressed on :evil: After swearing at myself a while, I swore that if I ever found myself to be in the position of a senior pilot, mentor, or operator position, I'd do my damnedest to not let a junior man feel pressured into putting on an uncomfrotable airplane. Realistic? who knows? I guess we'll see...

Sorry for the longwinded, less than helpful post. And thank you for the reminder. I hope your clunk turns out to be equally benign.

Take care, Rob
Rob offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 1569
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:34 am

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

That was a fun start to my morning, thanks Rob.
Zzz offline
Janitorial Staff
User avatar
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: northern
Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

I experienced a similar clunk in 2011 on an IO470. It happened in flight an ended with an engine failure. The culprit was an airbox failure at the bottom inboard bend. Take a close look at your airbox.

To this day, I am surprised how loud the clunk was. PM me if you want more details.

Rich
rfinkle offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:27 pm
Location: KSZP, KCCR, 18AZ
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... gujelTKUbh
You're never too old to learn something stupid.

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Thanks all for the replies. The airbox failure sounds interesting, and I will investigate. Engine failure is not on my current 'to do' list.

As far as other clunks in my planes, I am now thinking back to the other times something has made an odd sound. Seatbelts in the Husky hitting the hardwood floors definitely get your attention.

In this recent event, I have the SCS Interiors vinyl floors so anything solid landing on the floor will make a bang. I just wish I definitively knew it was the bag of rocks.
Squash offline
Supporter
Posts: 605
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

What makes Rob's story so scary is that it was night work. I flew planes that commonly made bad sounds, but it was in daylight. I could always find a place to land.
contactflying offline
Posts: 4972
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:36 pm
Location: Aurora, Missouri 2H2
Download my free "https://tinyurl.com/Safe-Maneuvering" e-book.

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Carried lots of weird stuff in airplanes over the years. Can’t and won’t describe a lot of it. Sufficient to say that an exploding potato chip bag in your heaping boxes of provisions over hostile terrain will stop your heart[emoji1]
gbflyer offline
User avatar
Posts: 2317
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:35 pm
Location: SE Alaska

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

I once made a precautionary landing in open water in a 206 on floats because right after takeoff there was a rapid and very loud tapping that sounded to me to be matching the engine rpm. Got out and inspected the engine and cowl etc. got back in and fired up. At idle...nothing. Run up....tap tap tap tap, but could hear (now that I wasn’t afraid of an engine failure) that it was coming from rear and right. Shut down, got out, crossed the wire, and sure enough there was two inches of webbing from a backpack sticking out the cargo door. Problem solved. Embarrassed slightly, but also glad it wasn’t worse. I hope your story ends up as something silly and not too expensive : )
Kodiakmack offline
User avatar
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:07 pm
Location: Ogden/McCall
Aircraft: DHC-6
La-4
C-421
Christen Eagle II

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

I wanted to circle back and close the loop on my original post. I think that if the floors were carpeted, this wouldn’t have been much of an issue. But with my thin vinyl floors, anything hitting the floor makes a bang. I have recreated many “engine clunks” by shifting and tipping over Nalgene water bottles behind my seat. I am fairly certain that it was a water bottle or a shifting of the bag of rocks. The plane has performed about 30 flawless hours since the incident including the mission of transporting rescue dogs and cats around AK.
Squash offline
Supporter
Posts: 605
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Thanks for the update! Rescue critters, cool!


Kurt
G44 offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2093
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:46 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

Squash wrote: And if you made it this far, at least you can enjoy this photo I took while on an evening walk at the Fairbanks float pond on Wednesday. It is such a quintessential AK flying scene.

Image


Thanks for the memory, Greg. After 20 years working out of that pond, it always brings back memories.

MTV
mtv offline
Knowledge Base Author
User avatar
Posts: 10514
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:47 am
Location: Bozeman

Re: Please help diagnose "Clunk" after engine start

aftCG wrote:I can tell we fly very different airplanes. If someone attempted to board my plane with a 20 pound bag of rocks I would need to do some careful math.

Hope it's something simple

Unless they were gold nuggets.
David K offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:27 pm
Location: Cypress Hills area
Aircraft: Cessna 172D

DISPLAY OPTIONS

19 postsPage 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base