I have been planning to plumb in fittings to connect a ferry tank in my Bearhawk. I know courierguy has ferry tank plumbing and there are probably others. I'm curious how you have it plumbed.

I'd look at the PA22 auxiliary tank design. Plumbs into the fuel line from the right tank to the gascolator under the right seat. Uses a lift pump and a push pull cable to open and close the valve isolating the fuel tank.....bet you could add a micro switch to the lever that opens and closes the valve to power the lift pump when drawing fuel from the ferry tank.


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@ Whee:

Wow, nice looking tank. How many gallons ? How much of that capacity is usable?

How many gallons total will you then have on your BH with the wing tanks and any extended mods?

Nice job.

.
The only time an aircraft has too much fuel on board is when it is on fire.

SIR CHARLES KINGSFORD SMITH

The aux tanks I have STC'd for Stinsons, pumps from the aux tank, to the left main tank via an electric pump. that way you're not messing with the main fuel system.
John

Why not tee it into the main line downstream of the tank selector valve? Just put in a second valve, which you probably would anyway for the aux tank. Use a quick connect coupling attached to a high quality fuel hose coming from the ferry tank.

The tank came with my jet boat but I replaced it with a couple saddle tanks. I calculated it to be 48gallons but I won't know for sure till I fill it. I don't know how much is useable. I think it is made of 3/16 aluminum. It is pretty stout but easy enough to for me to lift on my own. It fits the BH really well. I'm not installing aux wing tanks so I'll have about 100gal between the main tanks and this ferry tank.

I'd like to leave the main fuel system alone and install a system like John's Stinson STC. I just don't know the right way to connect it to the main tank.

Maybe I can T into the return line right at the main tank and install a valve in the wing root. Open the valve and turn on the transfer pump. But how do you ensure the valve stays closed especially when the ferry tank is not installed?

But how do you ensure the valve stays closed especially when the ferry tank is not installed?

I don't have the time right now to find the exact ones, but something like this would work. They valve closed when disconnected:

http://fluidcontrol.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&Itemid=83

Man, that is going to be a LOT of weight aft of the center of lift when full. I'd be working a number of weight and balance calculations if you've got enough weight data to work them.

I also hate gas in the cockpit. for a lot of reasons, CG being one of them. Always in the way as well, and how do you fill it/vent it, etc without stinking up the cockpit. Are you going to run a filler out the side of the plane? If not, you'll spill gas/have fumes in the cabin all the time. Where are you going to vent it? Looks like a more or less permanent installation to me. I can tell you that passengers smelling avgas will puke sooner than later.

If you really need the gas, I'd build/buy a belly tank. That way, it's a bit further forward, all gas outside the cabin, and it's down low. Belly tanks also come off and go back on really easy. I'd be really skeptical of the functionality of that tank.

As to plumbing, tried and true is to simply pump fuel from the aux tank up a line into the top of the left or right main tank. Run fuel level down in that tank, pump fuel from aux tank into the wing.

I'd really give a LOT of careful consideration to using that tank, though. Also, is it baffled properly?

Simple way... Run a fuel line up the left side and plump into the top of the left main tank... Would need to weld in a dedicated bung in the tank for the aux tank only... Install a lift check valve in the line... Use a standard facet fuel pump... Time how much fuel flow you have at the outlet when on the ground... Run left tank dry, switch to right, turn on pump and time how many gallons you want to transfer... Switch back to left tank... Repeat..

This is Exactly how the belly tank on the Super Cub is plumbed...

Brian

Yup, what Brian said.

Thanks guys. I recognize that this tank isn't great and honestly I'll probly never use it but I still want to get everything ready for a ferry tank in case I ever use one.

I'll have a dedicated bung added when I add the return line bungs.

whee wrote:..... I'll have about 100gal between the main tanks and this ferry tank.....

That's about 9 hours endurance burning 11 gph through your IO-360.
Are you planning a lot of long trips?
I can see thinking that 50 gallon (4-1/2 hours worth) wing tanks maybe isn't quite enough, but I wouldn't go this route. Is there room for slightly larger wing tanks?
If not, I'd just live with the 50 gallon limit.

whee wrote:Thanks guys. I recognize that this tank isn't great and honestly I'll probly never use it but I still want to get everything ready for a ferry tank in case I ever use one.

I'll have a dedicated bung added when I add the return line bungs.

Based on the CG data from a different BH there is plenty of CG envelope to use a tank like this and that is with a light O360 lycoming.

hotrod180 wrote:

whee wrote:..... I'll have about 100gal between the main tanks and this ferry tank.....

That's about 9 hours endurance burning 11 gph through your IO-360.
Are you planning a lot of long trips?
I can see thinking that 50 gallon (4-1/2 hours worth) wing tanks maybe isn't quite enough, but I wouldn't go this route. Is there room for slightly larger wing tanks?
If not, I'd just live with the 50 gallon limit.

50 gallons will be fine for pretty much all my trips which is why I'm not installing the 11gallon aux tank in each wing that many builders install. Only time I see myself wanting more fuel is for a trip to AK or Mexico or the Bahamas.

I know this is going to sound condescending, but seriously put the aux tanks in the wing where they belong on the CG. Gas in the cabin is an accident waiting to happen. Ferry tanks used for long distance oceanic legs are a sparingly used solution that is a fairly high risk operation flown with a single crewmember. I realize that you're on a budget, but you really need to loose the "cheapskate mentalitiy" before it bites you in the ass. You need to approach Bush aircraft system design with an attitude that the worst possible scenario will eventually happen most likely sooner than later. The homebuilt community is littered with the fatal wreckage of aircraft that bulders tried using repurposed/substandard parts. I'm speaking from personal experience and have buried many fellow pilot friends.

Hey Whee, I've got 61 gallon capacity in the wings and couldn't be happier. I put as much gas in as I want for the trips I'm flying, and being able to fill up with mogas before a big trip makes flying way more affordable. I also don't have to worry about hooking things up or inspecting valves or anything. Also, my entire cabin area is available all the time for people/bulky items, no matter how much fuel I decide to bring. I'd look into the wing tanks if I was building a bearhawk right now.

RockHopper wrote:I know this is going to sound condescending, but seriously put the aux tanks in the wing where they belong on the CG. Gas in the cabin is an accident waiting to happen. Ferry tanks used for long distance oceanic legs are a sparingly used solution that is a fairly high risk operation flown with a single crewmember. I realize that you're on a budget, but you really need to loose the "cheapskate mentalitiy" before it bites you in the ass. You need to approach Bush aircraft system design with an attitude that the worst possible scenario will eventually happen most likely sooner than later. The homebuilt community is littered with the fatal wreckage of aircraft that bulders tried using repurposed/substandard parts. I'm speaking from personal experience and have buried many fellow pilot friends.

I have to agree. I'd opt for the aux wing tanks, or a belly tank. I HATE gas in the cabin. When you do a W/B, don't forget that on those long trips you're going to carrying a lot of baggage....which will also move the CG aft.

And, where you gonna put that bear proof Yeti cooler with all the beer?

MTV

No worries Rockhopper. I see your perspective and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Yes I'm on a budget and I know that many people think I'm a cheapskate and I'm ok with that. I see nothing wrong with doing things cheaper as long as there is no increased risk to safe flight.

Internet forums are full of bad information and misunderstandings but they are a great place to share ideas and experiences. When I come here looking for advice it is because I'm not satisfied with what I've been able to come up with on my own. When I have a solution I like I then run down any leads I have to verify the validly of the solution.

Take my recent thread about the mysterious part I need for my engine. After seeing what the guys on BCP thought I call up Aircraft Specialties and ask them about it. They tell me no problem. They'll inspect and yellow tag it for about $100 and it will be perfectly safe to use...just can't use it and record the engine work as an "overhaul." Do I care about being safe? Yep. Do I care if the word "overhaul" appears in my logbooks? Nope.

Obviously in cabin tanks can be safe and I appreciate those that have experience with them and actually answered my question.

I wish I could fit bigger main tanks but 50gal is it. The 22gallons provided by the aux tanks would be nice but I won't need them often enough to justify the added plumbing, pumps and weight. All stuff I'd have to carry around all the time. If my flight profile was like Blackrocks I wouldn't hesitate to install them. For a once in a lifetime trip to AK with my old man a ferry tank would be fine.

mtv wrote:
And, where you gonna put that bear proof Yeti cooler with all the beer?

MTV

You forget, I'm not a yeti fan. And who carries around two padlocks for their cooler to make it bear proof? I'd probly loose the keys and all my beer I was protecting from bears would be safe from me too.

whee wrote: 50 gallons will be fine for pretty much all my trips which is why I'm not installing the 11gallon aux tank in each wing that many builders install. Only time I see myself wanting more fuel is for a trip to AK or Mexico or the Bahamas.

If you included everything that you "might need someday", your airplane would be at gross weight before anyone even climbs aboard. If this 50 gallon aux tank is really gonna be a once every ten years or so (if ever) deal, then I wouldn't build anything into the fuel system to accommodate it. Time enough to lash something up if and when you actually use it. Personally, I'd suggest some fuel bags or jerry cans before something like that tank. Not sure if it's shown in the baggage area, or the back seat area, but I would think for a big trip to the Bahamas or the Land of Manana, you'd have the whole family aboard plus plenty of gear-- that big tank'd make that pretty difficult.