1 killed, 1 hurt. Don't know these guys, but hate to see this. It's a small and special community of pilots who do this kind of flying. Thoughts and prayers to their families.

https://pitchengine.com/reboot/2016/12/08/fatal-plane-crash-involved-usda-wildlife-serv/002519210751188599698

Sigh...

So what makes this type of flying different?

So many variables, so close to the ground. The target is always moving, the terrain is always different and often rising, the wind can play hell, you're flying to within shotgun range for the pass, you and the gunner both have all the adrenaline of hunting and flying low, you're hanging on the motor down in dirty rough terrain, and even if the pilot does everything right the gunner can still shoot you down.

Doing this kind of flying day in and day out definitely makes you sharper, but you're always pushing the odds that something could go wrong.

In the late 70s, a young son of the Evans family died flying a Super Cub on a coyote hunt in New Mexico. I was at their crop duster school at Slaton, Texas just after. My instructor, Marshall Eugene Harrison, and I wondered why the tactics used hunting animals were so different than hurting humans.

Gene wrote "A Lonely Kind of War " about his tour flying Broncos as a FAC in Vietnam and Cambodia. We wondered why energy management turns and wind management were not used in animal hunts to the extensive extent they are used both in air/ground gunnery and crop dusting. Continuous gravity thrust while on the gun run tremendously increases safety as does an upwind energy and wind management return to target. We just have to always be aware of our position in reference to wind direction and to always, when practicable, fall off the target downwind. These simple techniques are very basic in both gunnery and crop dusting.

Those techniques are used whenever possible but, at the end of the day, you're trying to make a slow enough pass to give a guy with a shotgun the best window to hit a running coyote--and even the best pass is nothing more than a snapshot. You're always riding the razor's edge between conserving as much potential energy as you can in both altitude and airspeed to convert it into the turn when you come off target, versus slowing down and flying low enough to actually have a chance at the target in the first place. Those two objectives are almost always at odds, since an extra 5 mph or 20 feet agl makes a big difference in being able to turn around or outclimb rising terrain, but also makes a big difference in terms of getting an effective shot. Easier to do on flat ground, where terrain is not a factor and you can make a pass from any direction and factor in wind. Harder to do when the terrain dictates a one-way solution, harder still when the wind and the terrain dictate opposite one-way solutions.

I'm definitely not trying to compare it to the complexities of hunting targets on the ground who can shoot back--I've got nothing but respect for you guys who do or have done that. In its own way, though, predator flying is one of the most dynamic/close to the ground types of flying out there, other than the low level aerobatic and/or Red Bull type guys. It's different from crop dusting in the sense that everything happens spontaneously, and all of a sudden. It doesn't take much of a lapse in concentration for things to go south in a hurry.

There are more than a few guys out there that fly and shoot themselves I was never able to do that with any success. Just to many things happening all at the same time. Muzzle control was my big worry with a gunner. It was to easy to shoot the prop or strut or worse yet shoot the pilot with a accidental discharge. There has been a few cases in Alaska where this has happened.

Very sorry to hear this, prayers for the family and friends.

Don Sheldon in Alaska during the early days. Had mounted shotguns on wing for wolf hunting. Bob Curtis said he had a shotgun mounted on top of his cub in the old days. Said he could load it without landing thru a hole in the greenhouse

Does anyone know what kind of airplane? Very sad....

Sorry to hear that, real demanding and high risk flying for sure, lots of things to go wrong. High winds here, downwind, the last several days, couldn't have helped.

Assuming it was a Super Cub..

A Pawnee is cheaper than a Super Cub and would safely carry 300 rounds of 40mm grenades for a chunker (300 rounds per minute rate of fire). And the aircraft is designed to crash. If hunters can use AR-15s, the government ought to be able to use military technology in this work.

Prayers out to the friends and families.

With todays technology there has to a safer way of doing that job.

With todays technology there has to a safer way of doing that job.

Maybe a drone with a gun, controlled by an operator sitting in a Supercub flying safely above. Launch from the Supercub struts when at the scene.

Would there be any legal way to use a AirCam for this? Have the pilot in the back seat with the gunner in the front seat with no windscreen. You wouldn't have worry about the gunner shooting a strut, prop, wing or pilot.

ExperimentalAviator wrote:Would there be any legal way to use a AirCam for this? Have the pilot in the back seat with the gunner in the front seat with no windscreen. You wouldn't have worry about the gunner shooting a strut, prop, wing or pilot.

Had to lookup AirCam..... but sure looks like it would work Might be a little chilly in winter Not much area for loading the animals after dispatching them. I am sure someone can get skis and big tires legal You would need all the cold wx gear Flylow and MTV recommend in the cold wx thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maoHutUGv4U

Why is this sort of work not done with a helicopter in the U.S? Seems the obvious solution, all our aerial shooting work down here is helicopter platform based. Is it the extra cost or some sort of regulatory hurdle?


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NZMaule wrote:Why is this sort of work not done with a helicopter in the U.S? Seems the obvious solution, all our aerial shooting work down here is helicopter platform based. Is it the extra cost or some sort of regulatory hurdle?


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Helos?

Each US taxpayer owes $167K from .gov. We can't afford it.

Total US Debts over $19 trillion and rising...
http://www.usdebtclock.org

NZMaule wrote:Why is this sort of work not done with a helicopter in the U.S? Seems the obvious solution, all our aerial shooting work down here is helicopter platform based. Is it the extra cost or some sort of regulatory hurdle?


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Simple answer: $$$$$

That said, some APHIS crews do use helicopters, but most of this stuff is done with fixed wing.

MTV

The Australian's used Cessna O-2 Skymaster for gunship over Bell 47 for scout as a hunter-killer team in Vietnam. Inexpensive but the scout was harder to pick up if shot down.