I should have included this in my original post, upgrading from the 470 to the 550 all depends on this being a worse case scenario and the 470 is just completely corroded and rusted out in need of a full rebuild which would already cost thirty. If that is the case, then I really want to consider the IO 550 option which would not be much more expensive than the rebuild.

mtv wrote:An IO 550 won't burn any more fuel than an IO 470 IF you run them at equivalent power. Fuel burn is directly proportional to power output.

As I noted earlier in this thread, I've run a LOT of hours on IO 550s at 13 gallons per hour, by running lean of peak, which that engine likes a lot.

Yes, if you run the IO 550 at wide open throttle and high rpm all the time, you'll burn a lot of gas, but you don't need to do that. The advantage of that engine is that it gives you massive power for takeoff, but allows you to dial the fuel flows back very nicely in cruise.

Of course, that requires discipline on the part of the pilot, and ham fisted pilots who refuse to study up a bit on the engine will do some damage to that engine....but the same pilots will do as much or more damage to an IO 520 or IO 470......

Any of these engines will do the job. Mostly, it's a matter of how much money you are willing to spend getting there.

Good luck.

MTV

What altitude are you getting 13gph with LOP at? This does not seem like a terrible fuel flow for 300hp.

C185D wrote:So let me get this straight if I run my io-470 LOP at 21-2300 and get 9gph then a io-550 can go down to 9gph as well? You would have to run it around 17-2100 and even then I don't know if that would get it to 9gph. The 550 is a great engine but last time I checked just the STC was 2500$ not including all the extras that add up quick. The Kenmore io-520D STC is 400$ and requires new fuel flow Gauge, and tachometer. The only benefit to the 550 is performance at max gross, on floats or high DA, if money's not an issue then by all means do the 550, but IMHO it's not worth the money.

I feel as if that 9gph figure is much more attractive than the 13 or 14 figure I could potentially see with the 550. I am most likely going to be flying in Minnesota during the summer and Texas during the winter with a passenger and a dog tops.

This sparks another expensive thought. I wonder what kind of power I could make with the 470. If I recall correctly that Pinecone has a hot rod 550 with a cam and some ported cylinders.

Pinecone wrote:My cylinders had been cleaned up by Lycon. I'm having a hard time believing the difference it made, I can't rationalize that porting could make this big a difference. I may be pulling as much as 330-350 hp based on dynamometer tests that have been performed on similar engines.

I really wonder if I could squeeze a lil more out of the 470.

hotrod180 wrote:

pilotryan wrote:.... Right now I went through a 141 school and have about 45 hours. It is not a whole lot of experience, but it is a start to hopefully a long life full of flying. I do not have my IR, tailwheel or high performance endorsement as of now.....I am a month out of HS and a month into College. .....I wish I had a money tree....

So you're a brand new private pilot, about 18 years old, and just getting started on your college education. I don't know how much time you're gonna be able to devote to your flying and still properly pursue your education, so I'd suggest getting the airplane squared away as basically & inexpensively as possible, as soon as possible, so you can spend your available time (and money) learning to fly it & building time honing your skills.

Something else to consider....when I was a brand new student pilot, 38 years old, I saw a VW-powered KR2 for sale & thought it was just the coolest airplane ever. But as time went on, it turned out that the kind of flying I was attracted to was not KR2-compatible . The same kinda thing might happen to you-- that 185 might end up not being your "forever airplane".

Regarding the engine & panel upgrades you're talking about, I hope you do have a money tree.
You're probably talking at least $60K for the engine & prop upgrade, or maybe more. There's probably little value in your old prop & engine, so most or all of that will be out of pocket. The panel upgrade will snowball and end up being $15K or more. The total ($75K+) is probably about as much as the airplane is worth right now- maybe more. Unfortunately when you add $75K worth of upgrades to a $75K airplane, you quite often end up with something worth less than the total. So even if you can afford all those upgrades, you can easily end up upside down on it-- which isn't too good if you decide to jump ship to a Bonanza, Cirrus, or whatever.

I am going to a technical college that is maybe a minute away from where the airplane would be hangered at. I chose this school partly because it had a program that I wanted, partly because their price was dirt cheap, and mostly because I want to fly and get as many hours as possible by any means necessary.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hennepin+Technical+College/@44.826741,-93.462352,2406m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87f618f5311bfd1b:0xff7da836ed2125a1!8m2!3d44.8352052!4d-93.4438843!6m1!1e1

I can not say that I have a money tree, but I can say I have a parent who had been around this airplane since she was born. Her being a ppl and having the connection with the airplane makes her want to split the price of repairs and upgrades 50/50 with me which I more than appreciate and want to do. I don't plan to hop over to a different airplane, as this thing should do everything I could ever want it to do but I don't want to be upside down on the prices. I paid a dollar for the plane from my gramps, and if I say I'm done with it I could possibly get more than I put into it back. The only reason why I say that is because of this listing. http://anchorage.craigslist.org/fod/5650454688.html May not be the same year airplane, but it would have practically everything that it has and look good with its polished skin! that is what it looked like when we bought it (it is a different SN but same year and same paint).

Couple things. Good news is that you have a 185 and time is on your side. As you will discover, just learning to really fly that thing (or any plane) will take a few hundred hours. So, patience is a virtue here. Learning to fly a stock 185 well will set you up with a good foundation for the rest of your flying career. At this point, the best mod you can do for the airplane ( and yourself) is avgas. I know its not sexy or exciting, but it's what an early career guy needs. The 550 and panel upgrades will always be there down the road. iMO, get the plane fixed and in flying order and fly the wings off it while you are in school.

Lastly, I think the 550 is "the" engine for those planes.....but be patient. When engine time comes, that's what I'll be doing.

That 185 you posted a pic of is a beauty. If you can clean yours up to match that one, you'll really turn some heads- no matter which engine it has.

Ah, a bit more information re: your situation.....suggests sticking with the IO 470 if it checks out. I doubt you want to go with the big check at this point, Mom's participation or not.

I'd wait to see what that 470 looks like inside, then make a decision. If the math pencils out, it might be worthwhile to upgrade to a 520 if the 470 is junk, but otherwise I'd probably stick with the 470, run it till it's ready to overhaul again, and THEN see what your financial and life situation suggests.

The point that spending money on avgas makes a lot of sense in this case.

Before you tackle that thing, get in touch with Tom Pfingston in Brainerd for some good quality 185 instruction. The 185 can be a little bit of a handful, particularly for a relatively low time pilot. A good checkout by a high time 185 instructor will be worth its weight in gold. And Tom is a good one. Retired MN DNR CO, with a good bit of 185 time.

MTV

Just a clarification. My cylinders were ported and flow balanced. I don't believe there is an approved camshaft modification. My cam is factory original profile, but was re-ground at the IRAN.

Something which hasn't been brought up. What year was the engine last overhauled? It may have a non-VAR crankshaft, in which case you'd be looking at a new crank. The cost is zero if you send it for factory exchange. This usually makes factory reman the most cost effective option, and will make the upgrade even more attractive.

First congratulations on finding yourself the caretaker of one of the finest backcountry planes ever made, and one without equal. As a 185 driver myself, having gone through and restored or modded nearly every part of the plane let me share what I learned.

But first it was a hot spring day in Texas as I sat next to the runway in a friends tree swing. Our local P51 driver came in and bounced his landing. The paved strip is only 30 feet wide and when he touched down again the right main gear got off the pavement and into the dirt, about a 3-4 inch drop. As he fought the start of the ground loop (watch the video closely) he came to the taxiway (also 3-4 inches higher then the dirt), one wheel in the dirt the other on the pavement. He was certain he was going to loose the plane when it bounced over the taxiway. But with some skill and a lifetime of good luck he managed to keep the P51 from ground looping. He back-taxied very slowly, pulled into transient parking and shut down. I walked over and he sat in the cockpit for 15 minutes, not moving, not making a sound, not looking any direction but forward. About that time his mechanic landed in the P51 driver’s 185 (he follows him everywhere). As the 185 taxied in next to the P51 and shut down, the P51 driver turned to look at me for the first time, and uttered his first words since nearly loosing the P51. He said to me “that plane [referencing the 185] scares me, it’s a lot harder to fly then this [referencing the P51 he almost lost]”.



A wagon, especially a 185, is probably not the best plane to get your tailwheel endorsement in, doesn’t mean you can’t do it it, but probably best to get most of your initial tailwheel training in a J3, or a Super Cub, or Citabria, or Super D or something like that, especially since you don’t have a high-performance endorsement yet, nor any hours under your belt.

If I read correctly you’ll be flying mostly in Minnesota and Texas, at least for now. If you can economically save the 470 do so, and put the savings into a Sportsman STOL kit and WingX extensions. It’s the wing Cessna should have put on these planes and is a extraordinary upgrade. If you need a new engine, and can afford the price of a 550 then do it (or put in an IO520D). I’ve never flown behind a 550, mine is an IO520D, but I have a ton of respect for MTV and he has a ton of backcountry hours in all kinds of planes, and has flown behind 550’s so listen to what he says. When my 520 needs replacing a 550 will go in its place.

Propellor. If you put in a 520 or a 550, AND you are going to spend a lot of time in the Idaho Mountains, or anywhere else that is high DA and restrictive terrain, by all means hang a 88” Mac 3-blade (or 86”). On a 300+ hp motor (on a 185) it will out perform all other props in getting off the ground, climbing, and speed brake landings. On take off the 86 will be super loud (my assistant lives in a hangar at our airport and mine is the only plane she hears take off - in part because it rattles the hangar), and the 88 hyper loud. If you aren’t spending time flying in these conditions then a different, shorter prop is fine and will give you more top speed (unless you plan on spending a lot of time above 14,000 feet). A note on engine out, I don’t care what kind of prop you have, the engine dies pull the prop knob all the way out, that will significantly extend your glide distance by the reducing drag of the prop.

GTN650? Unless you are going to be doing a lot of IFR pass this by, a waste of money, as is all certificated “glass panel” equipment (in my opinion), for VFR flying - it’s all ancient technology and crazy expensive. I installed one in my 185 and it is the only upgrade money I wasted.

And if you aren’t going to fly IFR all the time don’t fly IFR. Get your IFR rating for sure so if you accidentally (or stupidly) find yourself in IFR conditions you can get out safely. IFR flying, just like off-airport flying, is a skill set that immediately degrades when not used and requires excellent discipline to gain back without endangering yourself or others in the process (and I think all of us would agree that when we were your age we lacked excellent discipline).

Instead, I would install (if I was to do my panel again) the minimum, required, certificated VFR gauges, in 2” size, over in the corner out of the way. Panel mount an iPad Mini in front and an EDM 900 in front of the co-pilot seat but closest to the com stack. Carry an iPhone as a backup and panel mount it if you like. Mount (don’t place) a Stratus 2 (if you use Foreflight) or a GDL 39 3D (if you use Garmin Pilot). These will give you ADS-B in and Synthetic Vision, although if you choose Garmin Pilot you may want to com stack mount a second iPad Mini since, at least at the time I write this, Garmin Pilot can’t split screen Synthetic Vision like Foreflight can. Having the Synthetic Vision option will be of value when you find yourself inadvertently in IFR conditions, and I’m not only talking about clouds, but also driving rain that you could see through before you entered it, flat light conditions like getting caught between cloud layers with a bright sun behind you, turning over a big lake with little or no ripple, etc. Wire these devices to aircraft power, using the built in batteries as backup only.

Also install a CO Guardian, high and center in the panel. In addition to alerting you to CO danger you also get a DA display (among other things).

Mount, and connect to aircraft power, a Delorme inReach. Put it in easy reach and view, and make ‘turning on tracking’ part of your preflight procedure (you can see where I mounted mine somewhere amongst my photos).

Stay humble, realize you don’t know shit, ask a ton of questions, have fun, and fly. Or as denalipilot says about me “wake up, breathe, fly!”.

A bunch of smart experienced folks here, take advantage of their experience and expertise.

Oh, and brunettes.

So how about some pictures and details of this 185? Smoh? Year engine overhauled?

In aviation you either need a boatload of money or a good amount of money and the skills to maintain your flying machine. Which one are you?

Go get your ppl...then go get your instrument rating. Find yourself a mentor on the mechanic side of things. Get your a&p. Kind of need to jump in aviation with both feet.

Tim

hotrod180 wrote:

pilotryan wrote:... upgrading from the 470 to the 550 all depends on this being a worse case scenario and the 470 is just completely corroded and rusted out in need of a full rebuild which would already cost thirty. If that is the case, then I really want to consider the IO 550 option which would not be much more expensive than the rebuild..............

It might turn out that the engine is in good shape, in spite of sitting. Sometimes that is the case, you know. Or maybe some or all of the cylinders need refreshing/replacing, but your lower end is good. I'd hope for one of these two scenarios. Because (reality check time) I'm guessing it would be twice the money to upgrade to a IO550 & suitable prop than to overhaul what you've got. Someone here recently looked at a 180 for sale which had an Air Plains 520 conversion, I think he said the receipts totaled up to close to $80K for everything.


BTW that 185 you posted a pic of is a beauty. If you can clean yours up to match that one, you'll really turn some heads- no matter which engine it has.

If it is in good shape, I will be more than a happy camper with an engine that is still one of the best. I will make sure to let you guys know how things turn out on it.

mtv wrote:Ah, a bit more information re: your situation.....suggests sticking with the IO 470 if it checks out. I doubt you want to go with the big check at this point, Mom's participation or not.

I'd wait to see what that 470 looks like inside, then make a decision. If the math pencils out, it might be worthwhile to upgrade to a 520 if the 470 is junk, but otherwise I'd probably stick with the 470, run it till it's ready to overhaul again, and THEN see what your financial and life situation suggests.

The point that spending money on avgas makes a lot of sense in this case.

Before you tackle that thing, get in touch with Tom Pfingston in Brainerd for some good quality 185 instruction. The 185 can be a little bit of a handful, particularly for a relatively low time pilot. A good checkout by a high time 185 instructor will be worth its weight in gold. And Tom is a good one. Retired MN DNR CO, with a good bit of 185 time.

MTV

Thank you for recommending Tom up in Brainerd. I have been looking for an instructor who can adequately teach me the ropes. Does he use his own aircraft or would I have to bring him down to FCM for instruction?

Also the 470 will be looked at in the near future. If it is salvageable I would gladly pay the price of fixing it versus double to get the 550 + prop + accessories.

Pinecone wrote:Just a clarification. My cylinders were ported and flow balanced. I don't believe there is an approved camshaft modification. My cam is factory original profile, but was re-ground at the IRAN.

Something which hasn't been brought up. What year was the engine last overhauled? It may have a non-VAR crankshaft, in which case you'd be looking at a new crank. The cost is zero if you send it for factory exchange. This usually makes factory reman the most cost effective option, and will make the upgrade even more attractive.

Thanks for clearing that up, I will definitely look into that for the 470 and or 550 if its time comes. Sounds like you got quite the powerhouse!

If I can recall correctly, the 470 was last overhauled in the mid 80's with chrome plated cylinders. I can not find any information on the benefits or if they stand up to corrosion. My google skills in this area are slightly lacking...

Barnstormer wrote:First congratulations on finding yourself the caretaker of one of the finest backcountry planes ever made, and one without equal. As a 185 driver myself, having gone through and restored or modded nearly every part of the plane let me share what I learned.

But first it was a hot spring day in Texas as I sat next to the runway in a friends tree swing. Our local P51 driver came in and bounced his landing. The paved strip is only 30 feet wide and when he touched down again the right main gear got off the pavement and into the dirt, about a 3-4 inch drop. As he fought the start of the ground loop (watch the video closely) he came to the taxiway (also 3-4 inches higher then the dirt), one wheel in the dirt the other on the pavement. He was certain he was going to loose the plane when it bounced over the taxiway. But with some skill and a lifetime of good luck he managed to keep the P51 from ground looping. He back-taxied very slowly, pulled into transient parking and shut down. I walked over and he sat in the cockpit for 15 minutes, not moving, not making a sound, not looking any direction but forward. About that time his mechanic landed in the P51 driver’s 185 (he follows him everywhere). As the 185 taxied in next to the P51 and shut down, the P51 driver turned to look at me for the first time, and uttered his first words since nearly loosing the P51. He said to me “that plane [referencing the 185] scares me, it’s a lot harder to fly then this [referencing the P51 he almost lost]”.

A wagon, especially a 185, is probably not the best plane to get your tailwheel endorsement in, doesn’t mean you can’t do it it, but probably best to get most of your initial tailwheel training in a J3, or a Super Cub, or Citabria, or Super D or something like that, especially since you don’t have a high-performance endorsement yet, nor any hours under your belt.

If I read correctly you’ll be flying mostly in Minnesota and Texas, at least for now. If you can economically save the 470 do so, and put the savings into a Sportsman STOL kit and WingX extensions. It’s the wing Cessna should have put on these planes and is a extraordinary upgrade. If you need a new engine, and can afford the price of a 550 then do it (or put in an IO520D). I’ve never flown behind a 550, mine is an IO520D, but I have a ton of respect for MTV and he has a ton of backcountry hours in all kinds of planes, and has flown behind 550’s so listen to what he says. When my 520 needs replacing a 550 will go in its place.

Propellor. If you put in a 520 or a 550, AND you are going to spend a lot of time in the Idaho Mountains, or anywhere else that is high DA and restrictive terrain, by all means hang a 88” Mac 3-blade (or 86”). On a 300+ hp motor (on a 185) it will out perform all other props in getting off the ground, climbing, and speed brake landings. On take off the 86 will be super loud (my assistant lives in a hangar at our airport and mine is the only plane she hears take off - in part because it rattles the hangar), and the 88 hyper loud. If you aren’t spending time flying in these conditions then a different, shorter prop is fine and will give you more top speed (unless you plan on spending a lot of time above 14,000 feet). A note on engine out, I don’t care what kind of prop you have, the engine dies pull the prop knob all the way out, that will significantly extend your glide distance by the reducing drag of the prop.

GTN650? Unless you are going to be doing a lot of IFR pass this by, a waste of money, as is all certificated “glass panel” equipment (in my opinion), for VFR flying - it’s all ancient technology and crazy expensive. I installed one in my 185 and it is the only upgrade money I wasted.

And if you aren’t going to fly IFR all the time don’t fly IFR. Get your IFR rating for sure so if you accidentally (or stupidly) find yourself in IFR conditions you can get out safely. IFR flying, just like off-airport flying, is a skill set that immediately degrades when not used and requires excellent discipline to gain back without endangering yourself or others in the process (and I think all of us would agree that when we were your age we lacked excellent discipline).

Instead, I would install (if I was to do my panel again) the minimum, required, certificated VFR gauges, in 2” size, over in the corner out of the way. Panel mount an iPad Mini in front and an EDM 900 in front of the co-pilot seat but closest to the com stack. Carry an iPhone as a backup and panel mount it if you like. Mount (don’t place) a Stratus 2 (if you use Foreflight) or a GDL 39 3D (if you use Garmin Pilot). These will give you ADS-B in and Synthetic Vision, although if you choose Garmin Pilot you may want to com stack mount a second iPad Mini since, at least at the time I write this, Garmin Pilot can’t split screen Synthetic Vision like Foreflight can. Having the Synthetic Vision option will be of value when you find yourself inadvertently in IFR conditions, and I’m not only talking about clouds, but also driving rain that you could see through before you entered it, flat light conditions like getting caught between cloud layers with a bright sun behind you, turning over a big lake with little or no ripple, etc. Wire these devices to aircraft power, using the built in batteries as backup only.

Also install a CO Guardian, high and center in the panel. In addition to alerting you to CO danger you also get a DA display (among other things).

Mount, and connect to aircraft power, a Delorme inReach. Put it in easy reach and view, and make ‘turning on tracking’ part of your preflight procedure (you can see where I mounted mine somewhere amongst my photos).

Stay humble, realize you don’t know shit, ask a ton of questions, have fun, and fly. Or as denalipilot says about me “wake up, breathe, fly!”.

A bunch of smart experienced folks here, take advantage of their experience and expertise.

Oh, and brunettes.

That was close! I am really happy that he got that P-51 out ok. Had me on the edge of my seat!!

I still do not know how I feel about doing my tail-wheel training on 51X. It is a BIG plane with a good amount of power and a lot of things can and probably will go wrong, as usual

In regards to your airplane being modified a good amount, who worked on it and what all did you have done to it?I am sitting here with a relatively low time and really early 185 that has like five STC/337's (flap gap, plane boosters wingtip, GAMI injectors, seat mod (ill check on that one again) and some avionics) who is really really impressed by 185GM and Bigrennas airplane. I agree with you and I really want to get the ART Wing-X + Sportsman, and the shop up here in Minneapolis that I am thinking about using does them a lot.

That leads me to my next problem, I have no frikken idea who to ship the plane to and say "fix it". Being that my parents are going to be splitting costs so they can fly in it again, they are going to want to shop around and get a super duper cheap maintenance rate on it. This concerns me because I really do not want corners to be cut and end up where I am right now in the future (when you see the pic of my panel you will laugh). There are two shops that come to my mind for this, that is Wipaire in St. Paul and Beegles in Colorado. But honestly who knows who they will call and straight up ignore my concern.

And that leads me into my avionics set up. I plan on getting a good amount of IFR time in the thing. Like a lot of IFR time. I feel as if I want a dual personality airplane, fly through the clouds and be docile and STOL strip attack! I have gone from wanting a GTN750 to a 650 to save space and weight. Whatever the upgrade is, it will sure be a lot better than the Loran C and the GPS 100 that is in the plane right now I will get some good instruction in this airplane, and I hope to see you our private strip in down past San Antionio Barnstormer

behindpropellers wrote:So how about some pictures and details of this 185? Smoh? Year engine overhauled?

In aviation you either need a boatload of money or a good amount of money and the skills to maintain your flying machine. Which one are you?

Go get your ppl...then go get your instrument rating. Find yourself a mentor on the mechanic side of things. Get your a&p. Kind of need to jump in aviation with both feet.

Tim

I went down for a couple of weeks this early summer to work on the 185 with my grandpa A&P. I think I'm more of the boatload of money kind of person! Hahaha I took these photos when I was down there.


As stated earlier all I know is the time on the engine is about 600 or so hours, with the last overhaul being in the 80's with the chrome plated cylinders.

I am currently on the search for a mentor for my mechanical side. Originally it was my grandpa as he worked for Pan Am as one of those lead mechanics that knew what they were talking about. I find it kind of funny he went from building airplanes to flying 747's.

Ken Smith A&P/IA in Lockhart Texas and I did all the mods. He is top notch and also is a wizard with avionics and wiring.

Go with a GTN750 if you are going to do a lot of IFR flying, the 650's screen is really small. If it were me I'd still mount 2" gauges for the minimum required for IFR, except maybe a full sized AI, and still panel mount the Mini and Stratus or GDL 39 3D as described. But that's me.

Here are my 185 mod threads:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/my-185-project-in-texas-11730

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/let-the-185-mods-begin-again-16499

delete.

hotrod180 wrote:

pilotryan wrote:....I am sitting here with a relatively low time and really early 185 that has like five STC/337's (flap gap, plane boosters wingtip, GAMI injectors, seat mod (ill check on that one again) and some avionics) who is really really impressed by 185GM and Bigrennas airplane. .....

Unbelievable as it may sound, there's lots of 185's out there kicking ass & providing a lot of fun to their owners that don't have all the whizbang mods you've been talking about. No offense, but you remind me of a kid in a candy shop: "I want one of these, and one of these, and one of these...". You're in an awful big hurry to change what is already a damn good airplane. I would really suggest getting with someone (grandpa and/or a hired mechanic) and first just getting that airplane put back together, airworthy, and in annual. Then learn how to fly it. Get to where flying it is second nature, then start thinking about that IFR ticket & the avionics you'll want/need for that. Rome wasn't built in a day, and most airplanes aren't either.

I more than believe these airplanes are better than great without much if anything done to them. DO bear in mind, I was the kid in the candy shop and it looks like I am the kid in the avionics shop. No offense was taken.
I am in an bit of a hurry to get the airplane airworthy again as I don't think my grandfather has more than a few months left with us and I really want him to fly in his airplane again. At this time, there is not much I can think of other than the fabrication and reassembly of a bunch of parts to get it in the air. The finding a mechanic part looks to be the hard part, but that is for another forum post for another day.

That being said, I think it is a great idea to keep it relatively like it is as it sits and then go buckwild on it once I can fly it like a pro and want to expand my skills.

delete

No wonder why this thread died, my reply didn't get posted strange...

I just want to say thank you to you guys for telling me to stop dreaming, as I was deep in lala land. After a bit of flying in the FBO's 172S this week, my iPhone with fore-flight proved to be more useful than the GPS that the airplane had. This made me start thinking long and hard about the GTN stuff. I came to the conclusion that I do not really need all of the fancy shit that I wanted.
Right now as the 185 sits, it has its dual KX155's, KI209 and KI208. That's about as good as it can get if I do the rest my flight training at the local FBO with their 172S at 165 wet. Granted it needs a new transponder and an audio panel, that is much much better deal than picking up a GTN series with everything that is required for it and cutting up the panel.

Prop and engine are practically brand new, except for the sitting in the hanger part, so more money for labor! Only thing that is major is the re-skinning of the belly and bottom of the horizontal stabilizer, new paint and refurbish all of the interior. If you cant tell by that, this plane got BEAT up when it was flown. I am guessing that all of this stuff would have gotten done if it wasn't for gramps unfortunate illnesses, as he keeps saying it was on his very long list of things to do. If I do recall, there should be a leading edge cuff in the hanger (I hope its a sportsman), so that might go on (if its a sportsman). After talking to some newly acquainted wagon owner friends, the ART Wing-X looks like a great investment and who doesn't like the 3,500lb gross weight?? If all goes well, I'll just have my A&P toss it on it does no use sitting in my hanger doing nothing.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate everything. I will run the 470 until it hits TBO or dies whatever comes last. When that happens and only then I will consider the IO-550 with the MT three blade. By then I should have a good amount of hours flying the thing, and know what I am doing.

Good choices! You asked, received, and then even took the advise. Good on you.

pilotryan wrote:No wonder why this thread died, my reply didn't get posted strange...

I just want to say thank you to you guys for telling me to stop dreaming, as I was deep in lala land. After a bit of flying in the FBO's 172S this week, my iPhone with fore-flight proved to be more useful than the GPS that the airplane had. This made me start thinking long and hard about the GTN stuff. I came to the conclusion that I do not really need all of the fancy shit that I wanted.
Right now as the 185 sits, it has its dual KX155's, KI209 and KI208. That's about as good as it can get if I do the rest my flight training at the local FBO with their 172S at 165 wet. Granted it needs a new transponder and an audio panel, that is much much better deal than picking up a GTN series with everything that is required for it and cutting up the panel.

Prop and engine are practically brand new, except for the sitting in the hanger part, so more money for labor! Only thing that is major is the re-skinning of the belly and bottom of the horizontal stabilizer, new paint and refurbish all of the interior. If you cant tell by that, this plane got BEAT up when it was flown. I am guessing that all of this stuff would have gotten done if it wasn't for gramps unfortunate illnesses, as he keeps saying it was on his very long list of things to do. If I do recall, there should be a leading edge cuff in the hanger (I hope its a sportsman), so that might go on (if its a sportsman). After talking to some newly acquainted wagon owner friends, the ART Wing-X looks like a great investment and who doesn't like the 3,500lb gross weight?? If all goes well, I'll just have my A&P toss it on it does no use sitting in my hanger doing nothing.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate everything. I will run the 470 until it hits TBO or dies whatever comes last. When that happens and only then I will consider the IO-550 with the MT three blade. By then I should have a good amount of hours flying the thing, and know what I am doing.

It's wild what a few hours in a modest rental 172 will tell you about what you really need haha. I'm in the process of looking for my own plane and at least once a week while browsing through 180's and such I think to myself "Do I really need this? The 172 actually gets the job done" but then I go back to looking at skywagons

Pinecone wrote:Good choices! You asked, received, and then even took the advise. Good on you.

It only took a couple of weeks for it to sit in my head plus a stop by local airstrip with a bunch of modified 185's and a stop at the garmin booth at the local airshow.
The G500 and GTN setup was really really cool to see in action, but the thirty grand for the gps could go into a KILLER paint job and replace some beat up skin and then some.

asadarnell wrote:

pilotryan wrote:My long rant about not needing things and wanting a backcountry airplane

It's wild what a few hours in a modest rental 172 will tell you about what you really need haha. I'm in the process of looking for my own plane and at least once a week while browsing through 180's and such I think to myself "Do I really need this? The 172 actually gets the job done" but then I go back to looking at skywagons

I was really surprised to see that my foreflight equipped iPhone was doing more than the GPS was doing. Gotta love that feeling!

Buy what you want! As I was told a couple of times in this thread, just sign for it. It's just money!

pilotryan wrote:

Pinecone wrote:Good choices! You asked, received, and then even took the advise. Good on you.

It only took a couple of weeks for it to sit in my head plus a stop by local airstrip with a bunch of modified 185's and a stop at the garmin booth at the local airshow.
The G500 and GTN setup was really really cool to see in action, but the thirty grand for the gps could go into a KILLER paint job and replace some beat up skin and then some.

asadarnell wrote:

pilotryan wrote:My long rant about not needing things and wanting a backcountry airplane

It's wild what a few hours in a modest rental 172 will tell you about what you really need haha. I'm in the process of looking for my own plane and at least once a week while browsing through 180's and such I think to myself "Do I really need this? The 172 actually gets the job done" but then I go back to looking at skywagons

I was really surprised to see that my foreflight equipped iPhone was doing more than the GPS was doing. Gotta love that feeling!

Buy what you want! As I was told a couple of times in this thread, just sign for it. It's just money!

Good work. For what it's worth, I've had a couple of 180's and now have a 185. As time goes on, and make more trips, I'm heading the same direction. I pretty much only use my garmin 796 and my iPad or phone; focusing much more on simplifying and making the plane lighter. Good luck with the plane and school.

Bill

Funny how the modern pilot thinks. When I flew the bush back in late 60's we didn't even have an ADF. One either got good at reading a sectional and knowing their local area or didn't last long.

ranki1 wrote:Funny how the modern pilot thinks. When I flew the bush back in late 60's we didn't even have an ADF. One either got good at reading a sectional and knowing their local area or didn't last long.

Don't stop there. We need more.

Yeah but having some good instruments in the plane make it a hell of a lot safer and more useful. So long as you know how to use them.