I'm from Canada. I'm not certain of everything about the homeowners category, but a coupke things keep me out of it.
1: if your plane is in the homeowner category, yoy cannot fly into the USA.
2: once in the homeowners category, the plane cannot come back out of homeowners into certified.
These two reasons keepe away from homeowners, even though it would save me money, it would hurt the resale value.

David

A1Skinner wrote:I'm from Canada. I'm not certain of everything about the homeowners category, but a coupke things keep me out of it.
1: if your plane is in the homeowner category, yoy cannot fly into the USA.
2: once in the homeowners category, the plane cannot come back out of homeowners into certified.
These two reasons keepe away from homeowners, even though it would save me money, it would hurt the resale value.

David

Plenty of planes in the homebuilt category fly to Oshkosh and I have camped alongside and visited with the owners who spoke of other trips into the US they have made. I also bought a homebuilt from Canada and imported to the US. Just had to de-register it and re-register US. Not difficult. I understand the reverse direction is more difficult.

Point 2 is well taken. I think this is a valid point and there is good reason for it to be that way.

dirtstrip wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:I'm from Canada. I'm not certain of everything about the homeowners category, but a coupke things keep me out of it.
1: if your plane is in the homeowner category, yoy cannot fly into the USA.
2: once in the homeowners category, the plane cannot come back out of homeowners into certified.
These two reasons keepe away from homeowners, even though it would save me money, it would hurt the resale value.

David

Plenty of planes in the homebuilt category fly to Oshkosh and I have camped alongside and visited with the owners who spoke of other trips into the US they have made. I also bought a homebuilt from Canada and imported to the US. Just had to de-register it and re-register US. Not difficult. I understand the reverse direction is more difficult.

Point 2 is well taken. I think this is a valid point and there is good reason for it to be that way.

Hey dirtstrip. I agree that a plane in the homebuilt category can fly across the border and be imported either way. But a plane in the homeowners maintenance category cannot. They are two seperate categories. One where the owner builds his own plane, one where an owner takes a certified plane and does all his own fixing and such, basically so you can run non tso'd parts and avionics such to save money.
At least that's how my AME explains it too me. I'm far from an expert on anything...

David

So this category is Canadian certified, not homebuilt, I did not understand your original statement to mean certified and assumed it to be a homebuilt/owner maintained aircraft. I am definitely out of my comfort zone on this one.

I guess that explains why it can't fly in the US since it is certified but would be considered out of annual and may or may not be compliant with US standards.

Yes. It is basically removing a certified aircraft from the certified class, allowing the owner to do his own "annuals" and maintenance. It also allows one to run non-tso'd parts and avionics, saving quite a bit of money. If I never planned on selking my citabria or flying it into the US I would be very intetested in moving it into the honeowners maintenance category.
David

A1Skinner wrote:Yes. It is basically removing a certified aircraft from the certified class, allowing the owner to do his own "annuals" and maintenance. It also allows one to run non-tso'd parts and avionics, saving quite a bit of money. If I never planned on selking my citabria or flying it into the US I would be very intetested in moving it into the honeowners maintenance category.
David

The option here is not to be the one who moves it. In your case you would have to sell yours and buy another after someone else made the move and that lets the first person take that hit. Of course you would need to know who you are dealing with and how it was maintained. A lot of trust has to happen here.

The trust would be huge! One would basically be putting your life on the line, trusting that he knew what he was doing in regards to the plane. Personally, I would still get most of the work and annuals done by my AME. He does great work and I trust him, and he isn't too expensive. I would save huge on parts though...
I'm not so much concerned on the resale hit as I am about not being able to cross the border. I would love to take a month a fly down and meet up with a bunch od BCPers. That's the main hold up for me.

David.

I think the official category is "owner maintenance"-- using the term "home-owner" just confuses everyone. I'm not sure on the value loss-- used to be everyone said that about homebuilt supercubs, that they wouldn't be worth as much as a certified Cub. Turned out to be not true- look at the prices now. I think the value depends on what's been done-- if the owner maintenance option was used to install riding mower tires from Sears and to cobble up your own engine mount out of old Jungle Jim tubing.... yeah, the price is gonna go down. But if well-thought-out useful mods were done with aircraft-grade parts & workmanship, I think it'd be OK.

That's what I did. I soon learned (after buying it) that being certified is a very expensive way to own an airplane. My Cub was pretty ratty & timed out (read: Cheap) so I knew I had some sweat equity coming up. I also had plenty of qualified adult supervision to count on. So I went into the Owner Maintenance category so I could be the pilot with a screwdriver.
I didn't buy this as an investment, per se, it's another toy in the stable. Come what may.

I did think about the resale value a bit, and I thought that if I were buying an airplane, would it matter to me if it was cert. or OM? I thought that if it were OM, and the parts were TSO, lots of documentation & quality of work was evident, that no, it wouldn't matter to me. I didn't do this to save $$ on parts, I did it to save $$ on mechanics signatures forever.

I didn't put any WalMart parts on, everything came from TSO'd suppliers. I did my own welding for the mods & reinforcements, overseen/tested by very well qualified airplane types. My point here is that someone with a good variety of skills & common sense can do this safely. You don't think twice about changing the brakes or steering pump on your truck yourself, & I don't see a difference. (except of course, that third dimention so a bit of extra care)

As far as not being able to fly in US air, that is a minor limitation, and one that I easily accepted. I have plenty of great flying/camping/hunting/fishing/exploring/frinds/etc. up here! Of course when the "abolution of the 49th" comes around, I'll be a supporter!

Good points Nimpo. Its not that I want to use walmart parts, for me it more on the avionics side. You can get a non tso'd glass panel for way less then the same tso'd version...
I also agree with you on the resale for the most part. It does take commercial operators out of the market for buying your plane, but that is becoming a small portion these days...

I know lots of guys who do all their own work (names withheld to protect the guilty), and either don't log it or have their mechanic log it at annual time. Lotsa guy do their own annuals too, and just have their IA give it a quick (but expensive) once-over. The OM category would legitimize that sort of thing, and not reduce safety a bit.
You could also (for example) install better tires/brakes/etc without an expensive STC or field approval. Of course, OM would also allow someone to do some "downgrades" as well, so it's not all sunshine & roses.

"Of course, OM would also allow someone to do some "downgrades" as well, so it's not all sunshine & roses. "

Amen! I've seen some fabulous workmanship by folks who aren't A & P licensed....just attend Oshkosh if you don't believe that.

On the other hand, I've seen some airplanes which were just plain scary, after "owner maintenance".

It would certainly be "buyer beware".

Then again, so is Experimental Amateur Built.

MTV

mtv wrote:"On the other hand, I've seen some airplanes which were just plain scary, after "owner maintenance".

MTV

In all fairness, I've seen some that were A&P/IA maintained that were "just plain scary" as well!!