See below

Bottom line...I made a really dumb choice!

Dont do as I did and learn from my mistake!!

I represented a young pilot who made low passes over a high school to impress his underage girlfriend. They were going to revoke for 6 months and we went to hearing and pleaded and made all the good arguments we could and it was reduced to the 3 month suspension.

It is often the case that by going to hearing and arguing all the things in your favor, there is a good chance, not guaranteed, but a decent chance that you will get some reduction to the proposed penalty - especially if you have some good things in your favor. In other words, it is very fact specific. I have heard of cases however where the penalty can be increased.

If this is really important to you, I would find a lawyer in your area with experience in aviation law and see what they think about about the specific facts of your case.

I know two guys that have had license suspensions and one with a revocation. One guy had his license suspended because he flew his cub within the 30 mile radius of GW Bush when he was in town. Another was for flying his 108 home from Alaska with 6 foot of his wingtip ripped off, long story that will have to be told at another time. These guys just had suspensions. The one guy I know who had his license revoked was for an infraction he did in AK while hunting. He had to retake his PPL test and all of his previous flight time did not count toward getting his license back.

In your situation, I would definitely fight the revocation. It would not be too bad to live with a 6 month to a year suspension, but revocation means retaking your flight testing.

I can see if the guys I know would be willing to talk to you off forum about their experiences. PM me if you are interested.

Brian.

Sorry about your ordeal. This doesn't look like a lot of fun from here on.

I would talk to the legal services people at AOPA if you are a member and maybe even if you aren't. They seem to have the pilot's best interest in all that they do.

I would take the humble approach and acknowledge your mistake and tell them you have learned a valuable lesson. Not saying that you haven't done that, but it may be the one thing that may soften the hammer that some authority may befall. At least let them see a person who accepts responsibilty and that may help your case.

I have a friend who crashed an Archer, ran out of gas. He passed over the top of five or six airports on his way home but thought he could make it. He landed in a field and got a little beat up, the Archer was a write-off. He only received a six month suspension and he had to go up with an FAA examiner to review all facets of his PPL and especially, flight planning. Your case should amount to less than that in my eyes...hopefully.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Related or unrelated. I went to traffic court years ago in Burbank the case before mine was a parking ticket. The lady showed up with a lawyer (couldn't believe it but saw it) the officer stated his facts, her car was partially blocking a driveway "plain and simple your honor I saw it the car was parked illegal and blocking part of the drive saw it with my own eyes" the officer stated. Her lawyer gets up gives about 5 mins or less of lawyer B.S. cross exam ect. She beats it.

My case comes up cop says I was speeding on the frwy (6 am on a Sunday morn in a big truck nobody out there) I said I wasn't. I lost

How much are you willing to pay for leniency if it's even obtainable?

Thanks to all so far...

I do have legal counsel from the AOPA on this.

Good stuff. Please keep it coming...

Thnx!

Tahoe,

First off, the regulations in Alaska are no different than in the lower 48, with very few exceptions. There's no doubt people have flown busted airplanes into civilization there without reporting, getting a ferry permit, OR getting caught.

I can also introduce you to one of those who busted his airplane and flew it in after "field repairs" no ferry permit, and had his license revoked in Alaska. He had an attitude. Amd. frankly, your suggesting that you would not have had any problem with this had it happened in Alaska rather than the Lower 48 conveys a sense of denial that you actually did anything "wrong". You seem more concerned over having been caught than having risked your life....

So, please don't continue to perpetuate the myth that all sorts of stupid stuff goes on in Alaska with no ramifications.

I don't intend to be mean here, but I can tell you that the FAA WILL consider your attitude carefully in deciding the outcome. Go back and read your initial post: It exudes the notion that you really didn't do anything wrong. FAA's not gonna like that, trust me.

In your shoes, I'd follow the advice of the AOPA Legal Services folks. A smart attorney, experienced in aviation law and the process is your best bet at reducing the potential penalty.

Remember, though that this is administrative law, not civil or criminal law.

You do have appeals available, and your attorney should be able to guide you through that process.

Bottom line, however is this: Even a revocation for a year will permit you to fly again, albeit with some pain and cost.

The other consequence of homemade repairs can be a lot more painful, but only for a short time.

Again, sorry if I've come across as mean spirited in this post. Consider your first post from an FAA Inspector's perspective, though. I really mean you no ill will. I suspect you've learned this lesson all too well at this point, and I can sympathize.

Good luck, follow the suggestion of the legal folks, keep your head low, and this too shall pass.

MTV

aktahoe,

It pains me that your penality is so severe, but I am not surprised. Probably the "statements" here on BCP didn't help.... as you seemed defensive and even proud of your actions.

That being said...you have recieved very sound advise from the posters so far.

Frankly if it were me...I'd accept the revocation and start my year in purgatory. At least you would be that much closer to regaining your ratings and putting this thing behind you.

Contarary to our libertarian views....exercising the privileges of an airman's certificate is a privilege.....not a right ....as we wish it would be. The FAA is judge, jury and executioner.

Best of luck to you aktahoe. Wish that it had never of happened. Wish everyone had kept their mouths shut. And yes...with the FAA, attitude is everything. They want to be convinced that you are remorseful and have learned your lesson.

bob

Hope you took that post down yourself, if not you should be thankful that someone else did it for you.

gb

In the future, think twice before you say anything on this site about any faux pas.....That's my 2 cents.... Here;s another 2 cents, although this doesn't apply to you AK.... stop giving advice on how to fly in the mountains..IE departures and arrivals....

aktahoe1 wrote:Bottom line...I made a really dumb choice!

Dont do as I did and learn from my mistake!!

I am not sure that I know the whole story, but it seems that there were two people aboard, both pilots, that were familiar with the field repairs made to the nose gear. Although I have very little aviation experience I do not see how this trip could have had much of a chance to harm anyone except the two pilots that knew the risks that they were taking.
I guess the line must be drawn somewhere?
Maybe it could be compared to our automotive seat belt or motorcycle helmet laws. Laws that are in place to protect ourselves?? These are laws that most of us learn to accept. I wonder if it is more like being brain washed?

bcpstudent,

A "what if": Someone does a field repair to their airplane's nose gear. The nose gear is, on this airplane, connected to the firewall, which, by the way is also where the engine mount connects.....

Consider that, with vibrations enroute and/or turbulence, really bad things could happen, but let's say they don't.

Upon arrival, the homemade nosegear "repair" fails upon touchdown. The nosegear collapses, and the collapse takes out the gascolator (which hangs down low and often has a glass bowl). Now we have airplane, still moving at speed, on fire, sliding down a runway, with no steering capability, and slides into an airplane waiting to cross at an intersection.

Far fetched?

How far fetched is the scenario where an Airbus ingests a flock of geese, kills both engines right over a major city, then lands in a river, and everyone is rescued with no loss of life?

These things can go both ways. There are reasons the FAA requires a repairman's certificate to perform temporary repairs and certify for a ferry permit.

There is a process in place, and it is NOT very painful to comply with it legally.

And, it's incidents like this, and attitudes that cause the FAA and the public to want to ratchet down on us, regulation wise even more.

MTV

For all of us other readers of this group that DON'T read every story every 3 minutes it would really help to NOT delete the topic. If it was that bad then you should not have posted in the first place, now alot of us are reading between the lines to surmise the jist of what happened and that is what speculation is born of.

IMHO.
Ben.

Stol wrote:For all of us other readers of this group that DON'T read every story every 3 minutes it would really help to NOT delete the topic. If it was that bad then you should not have posted in the first place, now alot of us are reading between the lines to surmise the jist of what happened and that is what speculation is born of.

IMHO.
Ben.

the first post had nothing to do with the actual incident Ben.. It was sort of an introductory to what came after.. That thread of what happened is still here if you want to go search for it. Then you'll be up to speed....

Thanks,, I will go searchin.


Ben,

z3skybolt wrote:aktahoe,

Contarary to our libertarian views....exercising the privileges of an airman's certificate is a privilege.....not a right ....as we wish it would be. The FAA is judge, jury and executioner.

I agree that this is privilege not a right. But the main issue I have with the FAA that they are the judge, jury and executioner, as stated in the above quote. That statement alone is wrong on so many levels. Yes there are appeal processes, but the entire ‘case’ if you will, goes to and is decided by another FAA employee, I think they send the case to “Legal.”

I also understand that law-enforcement and criminal law is different than administrative law. But with a system that has no checks and balances they can do what ever they want when ever they want. They can also interpret the regulations how ever they want to fit a particular incident. It may work for awhile but in time that ‘power’ will be abused. Who is there to oversee the FAA and what they are doing????? I know, another division of the FAA, wow how does that work????

Just look at how some people act when an FAA guy shows up at an airport. That behavior is not because they may be doing something wrong but because either they or someone they know has been screwed over by an FAA guy. I also understand that not all FAA inspectors are jerks, kind of like cops. But when a few abuse the power it boils over to all the other ones that are good people.

Everybody makes mistakes and hopeful has the opportunity to learn from that mistake.

MTV, you are correct, point well taken.

pif-sonic,

Actually, the appeal process for an FAA violation is quite clear and DOES offer independant review by a totally separate entity of the federal government. The first level of appeal is to FAA legal, then to an administrative law judge, then to the NTSB, and the final appeal goes to the full National Transportation Safety Board for review.

The NTSB is NOT part of the FAA.

Unfortunately, the NTSB rarely overturns the FAA on appeal, even in cases that really seem like they should be.

Theoretically, at least, the checks and balances are there. Unfortunately, the NTSB generally has it's head further up its arse than the FAA does.

Frankly, I don't want the NTSB making rules for us aviators.

In other words, you're essentially correct, but the devil's in the details.

MTV

Thanks for the posts everyone...

I did delete the post above.

In a nutshell I am just looking for advice, beta etc., on revocations and suspensions, examples for such and thats what it said.

I made a bad choice to fly my plane home with a self repair job that was not approved by a mechanic...and I have now learned more about FAR's than I can even begin to express...

There is a lot more that goes into it but thats really it in a nutshell.

I do have legal counsel on this.

I am facing a 12 month revocation for my poor choice.

The start of this thread basically said just that. I am in a tail spin over all this and could have left the post up as I dont really think anything I said was or will be held against me however we all know it can.

I have been nothing but honest about this experience from the get go so I am not trying to hide anything....I hope thats obvious....

My first post months ago after re-reading now many times over, I did sound proud and maybe even erogant about my fix, but that was not the case even kind of. Words have a way of doing that.

I put it on this site in the first place to hopefully educate and share my experience like so many folks do here. As Bonazaman said...I educated him in the fact I was a Moron or something to that effect....well I was...

A ferry permit never even crossed my mind. IT SHOULD HAVE!!!

And...in the event your ever even thinking about flying your fix...a ferry permit is pretty simple a straight forward...for that matter insurance was in place and I still made a poor choice.

Dont do what I did! Get a ferry permit!

Thanks again for your posts....

This site continues to amaze me with the amount of knowledge and experience on here.

In a flat spin for now.....

Thanks,

AK