Interesting video I came across. I guess there was a very shallow layer of fog that when viewed from above was almost invisible. http://video.aol.com/video-detail/foggy ... IDURVAUT02


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I would give him an "F" for decision making. I never saw the runway, maybe he did ? He landed short of the runway so that makes me think he didn't. Even if it was a rental airplane and your apathetic about life and limb that is just a poor decision especially since it appears he had a passenger! What if there was someone ready to take off IFR on the runway?

Green Hornet wrote:I would give him an "F" for decision making. I never saw the runway, maybe he did ? He landed short of the runway so that makes me think he didn't. Even if it was a rental airplane and your apathetic about life and limb that is just a poor decision especially since it appears he had a passenger! What if there was someone ready to take off IFR on the runway?

Agreed 100%. As I watched him on short final and the runway completely disappeared my "pucker factor" was rising and I'm only watching the video! No way I would have landed.

Honestly, this video is a lesson TO ME as I have never been confronted with such a situation nor have I really considered that situation. I would guess that the ASOS (if available) would tip me / us off with a negligible temp / dew-point spread.

But yes - there would still be the question of someone taking off IFR but I'd hope (expect) to hear that on the radio, which - unfortunately - I know many don't bother with at uncontrolled fields.

That's a normal weather phenomenon here in the valley in winter. You learn not to look up but to look out at an angle to see if you still see blue sky. It's especially dangerous if you do this just before sunrise here in the valley. It can be clear with just a little haze and then as soon as the sun comes up it can go to 0/0 in about 5 minutes. Luckily it's a shallow layer and you can usually fly to local foot hill airports above the fog. But then you have to make the "call of shame" as you phone your wife or friends to come pick you up.

Hmmm.......just watched video. This is situation where one could make a pass over field looking down to make sure someone wasn't taxiing around in there, and go ahead a make the approach. So, maybe he did. Anyway, he still made a real lousy approach (landing short). Hold it off till you pass over/see the markings, then set down. He's fortunate that landing short didn't turn out worse than it did.

Looked like some tracks leading to the threshold, maybe it is common for them to land short like that. I know I like to touch down on the dirt when I can. First, it saves the bushwheels and secondly it masks my sorry landings.

He did OK, just so long as no prairie dogs or ground squirrels were injured or killed during the making of this film.

gb

svanarts wrote:That's a normal weather phenomenon here in the valley in winter. You learn not to look up but to look out at an angle to see if you still see blue sky. It's especially dangerous if you do this just before sunrise here in the valley. It can be clear with just a little haze and then as soon as the sun comes up it can go to 0/0 in about 5 minutes. Luckily it's a shallow layer and you can usually fly to local foot hill airports above the fog. But then you have to make the "call of shame" as you phone your wife or friends to come pick you up.

So how does that actually happen? Might one not typically expect the rising sun to warm up the air thereby creating a wider temp / dewpoint spread and lessen the chance for fog? How does that fog occur?

Fly around Colusa/Arbuckle Ca. and you get lots of practice doing those landings in winter.

Winter around the rice field areas can bring out the oh shit in ya. You can see straight down most of the time. Landing short solidifies he may be inept in a couple areas.

back when I was learning to fly eons ago my instructor would have inflicted much elbow pain in my right rib cage for not keeping it in the center of the runway on roll out... Just another clue as to this guys experience... Although I guess it's not that important in a nose dragger. but Hanging entirely left of center line would have gotten me a ration of shit....

Critical bunch of bastards around here.

gb

svanarts wrote:That's a normal weather phenomenon here in the valley in winter. You learn not to look up but to look out at an angle to see if you still see blue sky. It's especially dangerous if you do this just before sunrise here in the valley. It can be clear with just a little haze and then as soon as the sun comes up it can go to 0/0 in about 5 minutes. Luckily it's a shallow layer and you can usually fly to local foot hill airports above the fog. But then you have to make the "call of shame" as you phone your wife or friends to come pick you up.

Scott - Just to be clear, I'm not being critical of your observation at all (with my previous post). Just trying to understand the weather ingredients that make this happen.

gbflyer wrote:Critical bunch of bastards around here.

gb

well everyone was putting their two cents in I figured I'd add mine.. "Annoying" isn't it...?

I think he pretty much just gave up and just hoped for the best. He's lucky it worked out for him. Here is his quote about landing short "Landing on grass short of paved runway was done on purpose - to extend LDA, as the runway was partially covered with ice."

So......did he land on the chevron before the threshhold that wasn't plowed or was it indeed the grass/dirt? If he landed on the grass/dirt, seems like there would have been some kind of a bump at the transition from grass to pavement. Just a thought.

I think his only mistake was not destroying the video. Why set yourself up for criticism from people who were not there and not aware of all the decision factors.

flyer

flyer wrote:I think his only mistake was not destroying the video. Why set yourself up for criticism from people who were not there and not aware of all the decision factors.

flyer

Yeah, it would be nice to know all the facts instead of talking #@it with out all the facts.

Hey, I learned the hard way once in an Agcat, if ya have to do that, make sure that the light source is at your back. Looks to me like he's landing into the sunrise.... If the sun is in front of ya, when ya drop into the fog it's really blind, but you can see a lot better going the other way.

Terryd23 wrote:

svanarts wrote:That's a normal weather phenomenon here in the valley in winter. You learn not to look up but to look out at an angle to see if you still see blue sky. It's especially dangerous if you do this just before sunrise here in the valley. It can be clear with just a little haze and then as soon as the sun comes up it can go to 0/0 in about 5 minutes. Luckily it's a shallow layer and you can usually fly to local foot hill airports above the fog. But then you have to make the "call of shame" as you phone your wife or friends to come pick you up.

Scott - Just to be clear, I'm not being critical of your observation at all (with my previous post). Just trying to understand the weather ingredients that make this happen.

No offense taken. I'm no weather expert but I'll try to explain. Someone who knows about this phenomenon better can correct me.

They call it Tule (too-lee) fog. It's basically radiation fog. We have an inversion layer here in the central valley pretty much constantly and in the winter time a really cold layer of air gets trapped near the valley floor. The sun comes out and warms up the ground and the fog appears. It's powered by wet warm ground and cold air. Usually a day or two of sun after a good soaking rain. Sometimes it hangs around for weeks. It's only a couple hundred feet thick but it is incredibly dense. I can tell you it's maddening to hear all the foothill and Bay Area pilots flying in the sunny skies above the fog.

Edit: Just found a couple of other good explanations...

Tule fog usually forms the 1st or 2nd clear night after it has rained, the skies have cleared, and the winds light. Rain + rapid cooling + longer nights. Inversion occurs, colder air nearer the earth's surface. The cold mountain night air descends into the valley and becomes trapped. The air above the tule fog is warmer, drier, lighter, further serving to trap the heavy, humid fog. Low air drainage may result in several days of fog, while sunny breezy days may clear the fog by noon.

Also go here and scroll down to Tule: http://www.weather.com/glossary/t.html

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would have come in at a steeper angle. He didn't miss that fence by much with his low approach.
My 2 cents.
HC

58Skylane wrote: ......it would be nice to know all the facts instead of talking #@it with out all the facts.

Ya can't teach this old dog new tricks this late in the game!