Hey Guys:
I am in San Jose, California now, flying back to Oregon on Saturday. I was wondering if we might discuss safety issues. The loss of Steve Fosset has me wondering if my ELT is going to function and/or be located? Besides a radio beacon what else can a prudent pilot do?

Good topic, I was discussing this with a buddy as we recounted a backcountry trip in Mexico. We fly over roads when possible, we fly in group when possible, and we keep a good survival stash, including hand held radio and GPS. We figure if someone goes down they can land on the road, radio their position for supply drops and rescue and camp out if necessary.

Bob- I just checked the weather and it looks good now, but you must get thorough briefings. Follow the highway and you always have the option of landing close to help in an emergency. If there is coastal on shore flow, you may want to go towards Klamath from Redding, then north to the Dalles and west through the gorge to Troutdale...often the "east" side of the mountains has better weather. You probably only need 4 or 5 hours, so look for your window. Study your route and know all the airports along the route to stop and wait out any situation. Safety/survival gear is good to have. EPIRB's, Sat-Phone, portable vhf, cellphone, water, first aid, food. Preflight your aircraft thoroghly. Saturday morning looks better than the afternoon for winds/rain/clouds. Steve Fossett was known to take a lot a risks. Fly safe and have a good flight.

TwinPOS wrote:We fly over roads when possible, we fly in group when possible, and we keep a good survival stash, including hand held radio and GPS.

Amen... The older I get, the less of a hurry I am. I'll fly anytime, anywhere, if I need to, but most days now I spend the extra ten minutes of a trip to zig and zag and stay closer to a hospitable landing area in case something breaks.

An ELT doesn't do much good if it (and you) get squished as you hit. Play "What If" constantly when flying and don't get complacent when trundling along. What are engine(s) and fuel trends? Where are you gonna go if the prop stops? And how are you gonna get the airplane stuffed into the only spot on the ground that looks usable?

My rule when flying up north was to dress for hitting the ground with the airplane on fire, and having to live for a few days with only the gear in my vest and in my pockets. Try it for practice a few times and you'll see how comfortable (or miserable) you can actually be. And, bring a good book, because boredom sets in real fast if you're stuck for a week living out of a broke airplane waiting for weather to let someone come get you.

Last but not least, like TwinPOS says... Bring spares. Handheld radio and handheld GPS. Can't tell you the number of times I came limping back home in shit weather using the handhelds to navigate and talk. Woulda been in a world of hurt without them. Steve Fossett got a million dollar search because of his rich buddies, but I'm betting that all most of us on this forum would rate is only an hour or two of a couple of old farts in a CAP C182. After that it's up to you to rescue yourself.

Gump

Spare batteries as well. Water is the biggest thing food wise. I think a PLB. I also think that winter and summer, depending on where you live may require different surival kits.

If you carry a hand-held radio then make sure you know which freqs ATC use along your route, especially "Center." You can relay a distress call through an airliner.

Also, a lot of airliners talk informally on 123.45

As a CAP member with mission experience, let me add

File a flight plan. If you don't want to do an "official" flight plan (to protect a secret fishing hole), tell or e-mail the same information to your family or a good friend. Call them when you take off and call to "close" your informal flight plan when you get there. In the late seventies, the Fairbanks CAP used to accept sealed envelopes from people with a DTG on it - if it wasn't picked up by the agreed upon DTG, it was opened, your POC was called to check on you, and a mission could be initiated if neccessary.

Secondly, use flight following if at all possible. It not only keeps you separated from the other sightseers, it gives us a great point of reference when the FAA calls and says "I was talking to N12614 when his engine failed and he went in. His last radar fix was at 98 23.3 North 123 45.6 West)

Don

GumpAir wrote: Steve Fossett got a million dollar search because of his rich buddies, but I'm betting that all most of us on this forum would rate is only an hour or two of a couple of old farts in a CAP C182. After that it's up to you to rescue yourself.

Gump

C'mon gump I'd look for you at least until lunch time.

Longer if your plane had the beer in it...

If you crash so hard to destroy your ELT and other radios your dead anyway so don't worry about the electronics. On all your trips file a flight plan or tell another person your route !!!!!

BobWhite wrote:Hey Guys:
I am in San Jose, California now, flying back to Oregon on Saturday. I was wondering if we might discuss safety issues. The loss of Steve Fosset has me wondering if my ELT is going to function and/or be located? Besides a radio beacon what else can a prudent pilot do?

Bob, next item I'm going to purchase is a PLB. As far as the rest IFR - I follow the road.

I've always tried to hop over from Modesto to Minden if weather allows, or follow close to I-5 to Redding then over towards Alturus.

Just short local flights I seldom check weather with a briefer, but long XC's, I check with everyone I can, and file, and check in with the misses via cell when I'm on the ground. Check enroute weather, get flight following.

Be safe, Bub

Ice! You gotta have enough ice in the cooler. Flying in the wilds of the Poconos I am always concerned about keeping my diet cokes cold. Just last week end my buddy and I flew out to Lock Haven for breakfast. Well it was fogged in pretty good so we diverted to Grimes for a fly in they were having. By the time we got there we had been in the air almost two hours! Jeez, I was worried about those diet cokes! Walking around in the warm, clear afternoon, looking at the F4F that flew in, would have been hell without a nice cold coke!

For safety's sake, make sure there is ice in the cooler.

Never, never, ever pet a burning dog!

Look for me... besides beer, I always have a bottle or two in the plane in case I might have to wait a few hours while you get the helicopter launched.

Thanks guys, some excellent suggestions to increase chance of being found quickly if forced down. A handheld with the center fregs taped to it ought to work, long as it is within reach if you're stuck in the plane. I test my ELT every now and then, but it does seem that they don't work as well as advertised.

A pilot took off this summer in a Cub from Aurora, OR and is still missing after a long search... of about a week. Makes you wonder about Fossett, I mean they found about every other missing plane, I wonder if they are going to look outside the box?

BobWhite wrote:Look for me... besides beer, I always have a bottle or two in the plane in case I might have to wait a few hours while you get the helicopter launched.

I new I signed on here to learn things. Thanks for the tip Bob! I have a bottle of single barrel rum that will fit in my survival kit nicely.

While I am on the subject of new tricks, anyone know how to keep your buddies from raiding your survival kit?

Decanter your booze (a clear voka or rum works best) into water bottles, no pilot would ever want a drink of water.

If you want to teach them a lesson, leave a pint of a good make out that has "something the same color" as booze it it...

Ah, the "ol dirty underware" hiding spot. A guy could melt some chocolate on a pair of shorts, maybe add a few drops of that stuff they sell (smells like cat pee) to keep deer away and not have a thing to worry about.

Brilliant!

I am surprised I didn't think of that, since that is similar to how I got the Rum (and cigars) into the country in the first place. Of course, I used smelly socks for concealment and security. I like the chocolate stained underwear much better.

p.s. does anyone know how to get "foot smell" out of cigars?

I would just like to add on item to go along with the, "IFR", I Follow Road, concept. Before my first flight across British Columbia to Alaska in the mid 70s, I took the time to read all the accident stuff I could find. A key item that I remember to be most striking to me was that people would set down just off the road a couple hundred of feet, survive the crash, and die of exposure because, they could not crawl to the road, and no one spotted them off to the SIDE of their "driving vision."

Bottom line decision for me was to put down ON the road.
That way no one can go merrily on their way till AFTER the deal with you.

IT PAYS TO ADVERTISE.

ELTs often do not work because they also get damaged. If the plane goes over on it's back it can stick the antenna into the ground - no signal out -
I saw a picture of a past members wreck in Idaho this summer and the section with the ELT was separated from the section with the antennas.
ETC., ETC., ETC.

My best buy this year has been one of the new PLBs like the ACR Micro-Fix or some such title.

7853H wrote:If you crash so hard to destroy your ELT and other radios your dead anyway so don't worry about the electronics. On all your trips file a flight plan or tell another person your route !!!!!

Sparky Imerson and his student suvived the crash, and got out just before the entire plane was consumed by fire...along with all the radios and ELT.

That PLB in the vest is sounding like a very good idea. Especially since a lot of the places I fly to don't have roads to follow. A lot of places also don't have any phone or radio service, so you have to file round trip and risk a search when you're safly waiting out the weather. Or file with friend who understands not to worry if the weather is down.

Phil

I was going through a duffel bag of old camping gear the other day when I came across parts of an old prepackaged survival kit that someone had gotten for me some years ago. (If I had bought it myself I'd never admit it.) It had two sealed foil bags the size of hot cocoa mix that are labeled "Dehydrated Drinking Water." This should probably go in the same category as breathing out of a compressed air container at altitude to avoid hypoxia. Then again, those little bags feel kind of heavy. It may be H3O.

CAVU