I just got a comparative quote from Avemco vs Global Aerospace for the same coverage. Avemco was about $200.00 higher.

Just FYI on coverage:

Paragraph from Global Policy:

"This policy applies only to bodily injury or property damage which occurs and to physical damage losses to the aircraft which are sustained during the policy period, while the aircraft is within the United States of America, Canada, Mexico, or the Bahama Islands or while en route between points therein. "

I did not see a North of 60 or Northern Canada exclusion clause anywhere in the policy. I am not sure what other underwriters are doing but it looks as if Global is happy with you going to Alaska.

TD

TomD wrote:I just got a comparative quote from Avemco vs Global Aerospace for the same coverage. Avemco was about $200.00 higher.

Just FYI on coverage:

Paragraph from Global Policy:

"This policy applies only to bodily injury or property damage which occurs and to physical damage losses to the aircraft which are sustained during the policy period, while the aircraft is within the United States of America, Canada, Mexico, or the Bahama Islands or while en route between points therein. "

I did not see a North of 60 or Northern Canada exclusion clause anywhere in the policy. I am not sure what other underwriters are doing but it looks as if Global is happy with you going to Alaska.

TD

I'm with Global and thought I read I wasn't covered for Mexico (I don't plan to go there anyway). But I didn't read the new policy for 2010 yet.
.

58Skylane wrote:
I'm with Global and thought I read I wasn't covered for Mexico (I don't plan to go there anyway). But I didn't read the new policy for 2010 yet.
.

Most likely you are covered in Mexico, but as with all policies you will need an additional "Mexican Certificate" in order to fly in the country. Basically it is a "policy" written in spanish that is required by the Mexican government. Only a couple of the companies offer this in house for an additional premium, but the easiest way to obtain one is to call Baja Bush Pilots.

lowflybye wrote:

58Skylane wrote:
I'm with Global and thought I read I wasn't covered for Mexico (I don't plan to go there anyway). But I didn't read the new policy for 2010 yet.
.

Most likely you are covered in Mexico, but as with all policies you will need an additional "Mexican Certificate" in order to fly in the country. Basically it is a "policy" written in spanish that is required by the Mexican government. Only a couple of the companies offer this in house for an additional premium, but the easiest way to obtain one is to call Baja Bush Pilots.

"Most likely" ??????????????????????????

TomD clearly states. "

"This policy applies only to bodily injury or property damage which occurs and to physical damage losses to the aircraft which are sustained during the policy period, while the aircraft is within the United States of America, Canada, Mexico, or the Bahama Islands or while en route between points therein. "

What is it with you insurance guys..

Stol wrote:

lowflybye wrote:

58Skylane wrote:
I'm with Global and thought I read I wasn't covered for Mexico (I don't plan to go there anyway). But I didn't read the new policy for 2010 yet.
.

Most likely you are covered in Mexico, but as with all policies you will need an additional "Mexican Certificate" in order to fly in the country. Basically it is a "policy" written in spanish that is required by the Mexican government. Only a couple of the companies offer this in house for an additional premium, but the easiest way to obtain one is to call Baja Bush Pilots.

"Most likely" ??????????????????????????

TomD clearly states. "

"This policy applies only to bodily injury or property damage which occurs and to physical damage losses to the aircraft which are sustained during the policy period, while the aircraft is within the United States of America, Canada, Mexico, or the Bahama Islands or while en route between points therein. "

What is it with you insurance guys..

You are a real piece of work Stol...do you slap every hand that is extended to help??????

Did I quote TomD? Nope...I quoted 58Skylane...TomD stated what his policy said, but 58Skylane did not!!! Without seeing the policy wording for 58Skylane I cannot say that he is or is not covered...only that he is "most likely covered" based on the normal Global policy wording for territories covered. He would need to read his policy to find out for certain.

You have a serious conspiracy theory complex...do you try to find fault in everything that is said or just things that you think you know about? Don't call me if you ever need help with this insurance conspiracy...my hand is too sore from the beating already.

Lowflyby,

Don't let a sour attitude from one or two people get to you. I for one, and many others for sure, really appreciate your insights and advice when it comes to figuring out what to do about this important subject. Keep up the good posts! Thank you!

John

Just because your normal policy states that you are covered for losses while in Mexico, doesn't mean that you will satisfy the provisions of Mexican law. Mexico doesn't care if your hull losses are covered. Mexico doesn't care if your normal US underwriter will theoretically cover liability. Mexico does care if you have a specific liability policy that satisfies the provisions of their law.

Lowflybye... I have said in earlier posts I DO NOT a problem with you... I do have a problem with the entire insurance industry. I really give you credit for holding your ground though.....

My point is, Why would a large insurance compant tell TomD he is covered in Mexico and in reality he is not. Is that not misleading information? Kinda like fraud. I see the other posts that say if someone is going to Mexico they need to purchase a 'special' Mexican policy that's printed in spanish. Can't a big insurance company issue duel language policies.. any other foreign item we buy here in America has multiple language instructions ? If that is really the case then TomD does not have insurance coverage in Mexico. Either he is covered or not.... Which is it?

I am not angry,, but I am really curious how a big insurance company can say one thing and it not be true..

This is added on during a later edit...

To keep it simple... Does Global provide Mexican coverage for aircraft without having to pay for an additional "special" mexican policy.?

To keep it simple... Does Global provide Mexican coverage for aircraft without having to pay for an additional "special" mexican policy.?

It really is a moot point right now, since I don't plan to fly into Mexico. If I do, you can bet your bippy that I will contact my broker and find out what I need to keep me on the good side of the Federales. I know US Specialties had a big box on the front of their policy stating they did not write coverage in Mexico.

I am far more concerned w/ flying North and that seems pretty straight forward. I fly in Canada a lot and know the deal there; and Alaska is part of the USA last time I checked.

Some U.S. underwriters enjoy business relationships with Mexican insurance underwriters, and purchase liability inurance on your behalf as part of your regular policy that will satisfy the requirement. Some do it for free*, some have it as an additional $ service. Have no idea if Global is one of them.

*You gotta wonder what "no additional cost" means in the greater scheme of things, but it isn't a line item in your bill.

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:Some U.S. underwriters enjoy business relationships with Mexican insurance underwriters, and purchase liability inurance on your behalf as part of your regular policy that will satisfy the requirement. Some do it for free*, some have it as an additional $ service. Have no idea if Global is one of them.

*You gotta wonder what "no additional cost" means in the greater scheme of things, but it isn't a line item in your bill.

You are really close on your statement...a change to your statment should be that the companies do not include it as part of the regular policy on most of the standard Pleasure & Business policies. All companies that have the business relationships with Mexican companies will pass along the fee when the mexican coverage is requested by the client...it is not automatically added as most people would not use it and would have issue with being charged for it.

Last time I checked (and that has been about 6 months) a mexican "policy" from Baja Bush Pilots ran somewhere in the neighborhood of $250...it is usually about the same price from any of the companies that offer it as they are basically passing on the fee and adding a little paperwork fee to it.

To answer Stol's question...the insurance companies that list Mexico in the territory will indeed pay for losses in that area whether or not you have the additional Mexican policy so they are not misleading you. On the other side of that coin, as once&futr_alaskaflyer mentioned, you are required to know the laws of the country that you are flying in and Mexico requires an additional policy to operate in that country that must be purchased from a mexican based company...it has nothing to do with a US based company being able to print multi language policies and everything to do with Mexico getting their piece of the premium pie.

TomD wrote:I am far more concerned w/ flying North and that seems pretty straight forward. I fly in Canada a lot and know the deal there; and Alaska is part of the USA last time I checked.

Alaska and HI are covered under the policies that simply list US in the territory, but are specifically excluded by some underwriting companies. If this is the case it will be plainly worded in the territory section.

I have a .pdf file that I created about a year ago as a quick reference guide for comparing coverages of the various companies. If I can figure out a way to upload it I will do so for you fellows to use as a REFERENCE ONLY!!! You should always check your specific policy to confirm the coverage that applies to you as that is the contract that will be referenced in the event of a loss.

To answer Stol's question...the insurance companies that list Mexico in the territory will indeed pay for losses in that area whether or not you have the additional Mexican policy so they are not misleading you. On the other side of that coin, as once&futr_alaskaflyer mentioned, you are required to know the laws of the country that you are flying in and Mexico requires an additional policy to operate in that country that must be purchased from a mexican based company...it has nothing to do with a US based company being able to print multi language policies and everything to do with Mexico getting their piece of the premium pie.
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Thank you sir... I now have a better understanding of insurance coverage in Mexico.

I always thought there was no legal requirement for liability insurance for aircraft in the U.S. However, I just stumbled onto a pdf document that shows a few states require it.

The states are Alaska (air carriers only), California, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, South Carolina, and Virginia. Also, it says you can't operate an aircraft in Canada unless you're carrying a certificate for proper liability insurance.

http://www.slackdavis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mandatory_aviation_insurance08.pdf

As long as I've flown, Canada has had a requirement for liability insurance to operate in their airspace. This is to ensure that if you do some damage to someone or something in Canada, you won't be able to just skip the country and ignore the claim. I suspect the Mexican insurance coverage is for much the same reason.

For some reason, some folks don't seem to understand that insurance coverage sometimes indemnifies people OTHER than the named insured. That's what these insurance requirements are about.

I've been into and through Canada a number of times, and I've never been asked if I had insurance, or asked to see a certificate of insurance.

MTV

An interesting thread on a subject that is not well understood by most of us. However, an issue I don't see discussed here is related to hull coverage and loss payout.

Say I own or build an airplane that I have put a $100K into. I decided that I want liability covereage and to keep cost lower I'll carry the risk for half the value in case of a total loss. So I insure it for $50K and figure if I'm still alive I'll rebuild it. I mess up and it is found to be totaled. I get a check for $50K. Who owns the salvage?? Does the insurance co? I believe they do and I just lost my chance to rebuild it. Anybody know for sure?

gdafoe wrote:
Say I own or build an airplane that I have put a $100K into. I decided that I want liability covereage and to keep cost lower I'll carry the risk for half the value in case of a total loss. So I insure it for $50K and figure if I'm still alive I'll rebuild it. I mess up and it is found to be totaled. I get a check for $50K. Who owns the salvage?? Does the insurance co? I believe they do and I just lost my chance to rebuild it. Anybody know for sure?

The insurance company owns all rights to the salvage once it is purchased in a total loss scenario. They do not owe you first right of refusal. Some insurance companies will offer you first right of refusal before the salvage is auctioned and others will not. Some companies will sell the aircraft for parts and scrap without ever auctioning off the entire salvage. It is solely their decision.

That being said, insure the aircraft to value...what are you willing to sell it for? Insurance companies also retain the sole decision on a total loss and there is not a "formula" for it. They may pay upwards of 75% of the agreed value to fix it or they may total it for repair cost of 25% of the agreed value. Remember, it is an agreed value so if they total it they must purchase the salvage for the amount listed on the policy minus any applicable deductibles.

Scenario - You own a beautiful Cessna 195 that is worth $150,000 but you only want to insure it for $50,000 to save some money and still cover yourself in the event of a ground loop. That ground loop happens and the repairs are estimated at $25,000. If you decide to proceed with filing the claim, the insurance company will most likely purchase your "salvage" (total the aircraft) from you for the value you agreed on of $50,000 and auction it off for what will likely exceed $75,000.

It is for this reason that most companies will not insure and aircraft for values +/- 15% of the given bluebook values without substantiation. It is a safeguard to prevent a moral hazard.

OregonMaule wrote:IT REALLY CAN HAPPEN!!! PLASTIC GAS CANS!! AIRPLANE RUNS OUT OF GAS AND LAND ON INTERSTATE!! BUSHWHEELS AND SNOW! PLANE BACKFIRE ON START, CATCHES FIRE, TOTAL LOSS!! So, we know it does happen. It made me think.

1. Who is self insured?

2. Why?

3. Is it worth the risk?

4. Do you take extra precautions?

5. What do you think people who self insure?

6. Do you like your insurance company?

7. Your insurance details ?

I fly a Maule M7 $115K hull, IFR rated, 700TT, 600 TW Maule, $2600 premium. Excludes north of 54* I wouldn't fly with out insurance.

115000/2600= 44.23 years. I know less if you figure compounded interest.
My insurance company is ok I guess. Never had a claim.
The north of 54* is BS
I think people who self insure are don't say it Rob

I had forgot all about this thread. Now that I am over 1000 hours my premium is $1860 a year with a $250 deductible.

I fly 200-250 hours a year. That will be $9.30 / $7.40 per hour.

In the past year we have had several planes bent, the insured guys came out fine as far as I know. No insurance, well speaks for it's self.

Good day

Terry wrote:I maybe had 70 hrs when I bought my stinson and no tail wheel time and paid $1600 the first year with $25000 hull. It has been going down a little every year since.
I don't have the cash to buy another plane if I ball this one up, so for me a little over $100 a month (or 2 hrs of flying) is not worth the risk.

Good call Terry

OregonMaule wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:IT REALLY CAN HAPPEN!!! PLASTIC GAS CANS!! AIRPLANE RUNS OUT OF GAS AND LAND ON INTERSTATE!! BUSHWHEELS AND SNOW! PLANE BACKFIRE ON START, CATCHES FIRE, TOTAL LOSS!! So, we know it does happen. It made me think.

1. Who is self insured?

2. Why?

3. Is it worth the risk?

4. Do you take extra precautions?

5. What do you think people who self insure?

6. Do you like your insurance company?

7. Your insurance details ?

I fly a Maule M7 $115K hull, IFR rated, 700TT, 600 TW Maule, $2600 premium. Excludes north of 54* I wouldn't fly with out insurance.

115000/2600= 44.23 years. I know less if you figure compounded interest.
My insurance company is ok I guess. Never had a claim.
The north of 54* is BS
I think people who self insure are don't say it Rob

I had forgot all about this thread. Now that I am over 1000 hours my premium is $1860 a year with a $250 deductible.

I fly 200-250 hours a year. That will be $9.30 / $7.40 per hour.

In the past year we have had several planes bent, the insured guys came out fine as far as I know. No insurance, well speaks for it's self.

Good day

My sailplane costs me about $1200 per year with a $45k hull. I only flew it about 20 hrs the year before last and I didn't insure or fly it last year. So that was $60 per hour, I'm a pretty good pilot but just don't have the balls to fly it uninsured or even with just liability insurance. I flew the 180 160 hrs last year and it costs 1450 on $95k hull so that's bout $9.06 per hour. hmmm