Backcountry Pilot • Snider Speed Kit

Snider Speed Kit

Have you modified your aircraft? STC? STOL Kit? Major rebuild from just a data plate?
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Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:32 pm

Snider Speed Kit

Need an estimate of how many hours to install.
How many knots do you really gain?
Mudwagon offline
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Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:22 pm

Re: Snider Speed Kit

That is the gear leg fairing kit and wheel pants. .. I think I did an install in under 8 hours. . It's been about 2 years since I did it though.
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Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

Mudwagon wrote:Need an estimate of how many hours to install.
How many knots do you really gain?


They work with Bushwheels...? Don't you mean, an estimate for "how many hours to un-install?"

:wink:
Last edited by Bigrenna on Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:34 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

A full day for sure. I don't recommend them at Soldier Bar, just saying.
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Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

In the case of a wagon used in the backcountry like yours, you can't use wheel pants so the only thing left is strut cuffs. Depending on how clean the rest of your wagon is you might see a 1mph improvement, but they will help keep water from getting into the wings.

A better speed improvement is to replace your tail light with an AeroLED Suntail. Then you can ditch the rotating beacon on top of the tail and you'll pick up a couple of mph at least (and loose some weight by getting rid of the power pack).
http://aeroleds.com/shop/suntail-copy/?val=aeroleds

You can then either make a blanking plate to cover the hole, or replace that part of the vertical top.
http://www.steneaviation.com/collection ... -0742025-1
Barnstormer offline
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Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:39 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

I agree about the beacon; we saw a 2-3 mph increase after it was removed. (removed completely; installed new fin cap, wing and tail nav/led flashers)
aqua offline
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Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:21 pm

Re: Snider Speed Kit

Thx for the input. I don't want the full wheel pants, just the gear leg and brake cover.
Where does the led anti-collision light mount?
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Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:55 pm

Re: Snider Speed Kit

I don't think MUDWAGON and brake covers are a good match. :shock:
I thought of saying it seems like an oxymoron but did not want to risk the possibility of insulting someone whose hand I had not yet shaken nor told hangar lies with. :D

If you plan to fly at least three seasons of the year - on and off all sorts of surfaces and conditions -
I would want to be able to inspect the brakes (ever so often) = understatement.

Mud - Ice - Sticks - Stones - wrapping of long tall grass - etc
Was taught to see if the disc/rotor will wiggle plus look for any "new" substances on the belly after each landing. Was never a 100% good student, but close. :mrgreen:

But if speed is your game - I will sit down and shut up. :lol:
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:05 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

You asked about LED mounting. Here's an example of Whelen LED's(650 and 500) on the tips and tail, with a new fin cap.

aqua offline
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:07 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

The phone camera dulls down the lights for some reason. They are too bright to look at with the naked eye...
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

I thought if the plane came with a rotating beacon it had to remain on the aircraft?

I'd love to ditch the thing off my 185, but I thought that wasn't FAA kosher
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:08 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

You just need a "beacon", whether it's a strobe, flasher, or rotating version is up to you. Doesn't necessarily need to be up on the tail either, although that is about the best place if you're just gonna run one. My C180 had the rotating beacon and fin cap removed, a nice low-profile cap installed, and the beacon replaced with a fuselage-mounted strobe. My old C150TD had a nice low-profile fin cap with a small Aeroflash strobe mounted, very clean looking. Don't know who made it, but it looked as clean as a beacon-less fin cap yet retained the strobe in this very effective location.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Snider Speed Kit

So I could remove the beacon on my 1978 A185F and put the beaconless tip on the plane, remove the wingtip nav and strobes, their power boxes, and replace them with just a pair of Whelen Orion 650s?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... series.php

Can you control the strobe separate from the position lights?
You can. Per the installation manual, there are 4 wires; you can wire the Flashing and Position lights to separate switches. The other 2 wires are ground.

I have 2 wires going to the nav lights on my cessna-172m. Can I wire the strobe and nav together and use the existing navswitch to run both nav and strobe continuously so I don't have to run 2 more wires and another switch? aircraft is VFR only. Thank You. RE: Orion 650
Per the supplier: I would not recommend this setup but it can be used that way. It is recommended that they use two separate power wires so they can operate the functions independently.

Are these legal for installation on a certified aircraft?
Yes, the Whelen Orion 650 series is FAA TSO approved for installation in certified aircraft.

Does the Orion 650 require a tail position light?
Per Whelen, the Orion 650 does not require the aircraft to have a tail light, but can if they choose. The unit has LED's on the back half of the unit to provide 180 degrees of strobe when mounted on the wing tip.

Does Whelen FAA Approval for installing the ORION 650 series on Certified Aircraft?
Yes, the Whelen Orion 650 series is FAA TSO approved for installation in certified aircraft.

Does the Whelen Orion 650 Series Lighting have a Rear Position White Light separate from the strobe for use on aircraft that have no rear position light mounted on the tail?
No, this light does not have the rear position light. Take a look at P/N# 11-11365 or in other words the Orion 600 Series. This light would have the rear position light.

I currently have nav/whelen strobe wingtip lights on my 206. Can I use the wires from the strobe (after removing the power supply) for the strobe on the Orion 650 and the wires for the nav for the nav? In other words, will I have to run new wires?
You can use the existing wiring, the Orions just bypass the strobe power supply. No need to run new wiring.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:43 pm

Re: Snider Speed Kit

Yes; a pair of Orion 650's comply, A/C Spruce explains-as you posted.

We added the Orion 500 on the tail for extra measure.

1. It was $500, which includes the brighter LED nav function and the LED flasher.
2. wiring was easy, the fin beacon wiring was used.
3. My friend had just been literally rear-ended by another aircraft. He stayed with it; crash landed with a badly damaged elevator, stabilizer, rudder. Not a scratch on he or his 12 year old passenger.

"Fly into the crash as far as possible"
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Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:55 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

We typically do the following:

Replace the vertical cap with a no beacon cap.

http://www.steneaviation.com/products/sa-0742025-1

Then we replace the old nav/strobe assemblies with new AeroLED Pulsar NS nav/strobe lights and mount them on new LED compatible Cessna wingtips.

http://www.steneaviation.com/products/sa-0723200-56led

http://aeroleds.com/shop/pulsar-ns-pair ... l=aeroleds
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Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:58 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

Hadn't thought about the stock wing tips, guess I would have to change then for to use the wheelens,

I like the aerodynamic look of the aeroleds but not nearly $800 worth.

Not too sure about the rear strobe/position light, 500 is a little steep vs just putting one of those LED bulbs that goes to flash mode into the normal housing, can the sunfins strobe function be turned off without extra wiring, for night ground ops or flying in IMC?


I'd love to ditch that beacon and the old school strobes and boxes
Last edited by NineThreeKilo on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:27 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

The Orion 650's are $500/ea. You would be looking at around $1000 pair for Whelen or $1195 for Aeroleds.
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Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:41 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

SportsmanSTOL wrote:The Orion 650's are $500/ea. You would be looking at around $1000 pair for Whelen or $1195 for Aeroleds.


Doh!

Missed the part about the wheelens being priced each.
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Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:28 am

Re: Snider Speed Kit

Get a smooth Stene's fin cap, then buy one of these and mount it on the fuselage.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... selage.php

Not as visible as fin-top or wingtip strobes, but cheap at $182, quick and easy to install.
Plenty good enough for my flying, which is 99% day VFR.
My C150TD had an aftermarket fin cap with one of these mounted on it, low profile and very clean looking.
I wish I could remember / figure out who manufactured it.
FWIW at night they're very effective, but IMHO strobes don't do much for you in the daytime.
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Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:25 pm

Re: Snider Speed Kit

hotrod180 wrote:Get a smooth Stene's fin cap, then buy one of these and mount it on the fuselage.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... selage.php

Not as visible as fin-top or wingtip strobes, but cheap at $182, quick and easy to install.
Plenty good enough for my flying, which is 99% day VFR.
My C150TD had an aftermarket fin cap with one of these mounted on it, low profile and very clean looking.
I wish I could remember / figure out who manufactured it.
FWIW at night they're very effective, but IMHO strobes don't do much for you in the daytime.


While I agree that's a cheap way to do it (at least the parts are cheap, someone still has to be paid to cut & reinforce the fuselage and run wiring, install the Stene flush cap with paint to match), I'm not sure it really makes sense.

1. Do you gain much of a speed advantage since you're just moving a big strobe from one location to another?
2. Would anyone realistically go through all that trouble for a 1960's legacy product?

Chris
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