Ok Guys I need some help. I will be leaving early January for USAF pilot training. The longest portion will be 13 months. I'm torn on what to do in terms of storage. As I see it I only have two options. One is to pickle the engine and the other, having a friend start it for me maybe three or four times a month and let the engine get to operating temps. He does not meet my insurance requirement to fly it. So what to do?

For pickling, what do you guys recommend? Also should I worry too much about flat spotting the bushwheels? Other interests would be battery care, mice (I think I have a handle on them), pulling the plugs and utilizing dessicant plugs???? Plug the Exhaust? All these I have thought about but, I do not know what's right or the best.

As far as running it, this seems easier in terms of maint. But I hate to rely/tie someone else's time up? This would take care of flat spots, battery, etc. Any and all ideas are welcome guys. Thank you so much. Oh and this is a Franklin 220 if that matters from engine to engine.

Does you buddy have insurance on a plane of his own? The insurance I have on my plane will cover me in any airplane I fly up to $50K. It is part of the non-owners portion of the policy. I asked my agent about it and she told me people use it all the time. It is there so you are covered when you fly a friends plane and ding it.

If your buddy doesn't have insurance or you don't want him to fly it I wouldn't have him run it up on the ground. I think you would be better off pickling the engine, putting the mains on blocks so you don't have the weight on the tires and putting the battery on the bench with a tender.

whee wrote:If your buddy doesn't have insurance or you don't want him to fly it I wouldn't have him run it up on the ground. I think you would be better off pickling the engine, putting the mains on blocks so you don't have the weight on the tires and putting the battery on the bench with a tender.

+1

Shame to see it sitting. But if you don't have someone to actively fly it, then it's probably for the best...

We need a wiki!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software

I will quit my job as a full time house husband and start coding if Zzz will let me!

8GCBC wrote:We need a wiki!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software

I will quit my job as a full time house husband and start coding if Zzz will let me!

What do you think I've been doing over here?

I decided against actual wiki software in lieu of my own hybrid. I encourage content generation, though at this point I'm not opening it up to actual coding for anyone but me.

I support Markdown, the simple syntax commonly used on sites like Reddit, so there's not much actual coding to be done at all, rather just compiling good information.

Never had to store an aircraft but stumbled upon this clip he seems to have a system hope it helps in some way. Good luck on the posting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX-Hqk9nZ3s

Zzz wrote:

8GCBC wrote:We need a wiki!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software

I will quit my job as a full time house husband and start coding if Zzz will let me!

What do you think I've been doing over here?

I decided against actual wiki software in lieu of my own hybrid. I encourage content generation, though at this point I'm not opening it up to actual coding for anyone but me.

I support Markdown, the simple syntax commonly used on sites like Reddit, so there's not much actual coding to be done at all, rather just compiling good information.

You are doing a great job! I may be using old thoughts and terminolgies (not the first time). Anybody coded ADA lately?

Thank you for addressing my concerns! You site is a leader for sure. Fast on my iPAD!

FARMAULE wrote:Ok Guys I need some help. I will be leaving early January for USAF pilot training. The longest portion will be 13 months. I'm torn on what to do in terms of storage. As I see it I only have two options. One is to pickle the engine and the other, having a friend start it for me maybe three or four times a month and let the engine get to operating temps. He does not meet my insurance requirement to fly it. So what to do?

For pickling, what do you guys recommend? Also should I worry too much about flat spotting the bushwheels? Other interests would be battery care, mice (I think I have a handle on them), pulling the plugs and utilizing dessicant plugs???? Plug the Exhaust? All these I have thought about but, I do not know what's right or the best.

As far as running it, this seems easier in terms of maint. But I hate to rely/tie someone else's time up? This would take care of flat spots, battery, etc. Any and all ideas are welcome guys. Thank you so much. Oh and this is a Franklin 220 if that matters from engine to engine.

I would pickle it, Get a box of bounce fabric sofeners, and stuf a few in every hole you can open up and put some in, Wings, tail and under the seats,on the floor(keeps the mice away). Get a cuple of rubber balls and plug the exhausts, Get a baggy over the intake and tape it down, get the Dessicant plugs.
Put a soft towel over the windshield Take the wheels off and set it on blocks( if you don't do that, jack it up and put jack stands so the tires have no wieght on them), set the tail wheel up and put a block against where the spring bolts to the fuse. Put a shotgun caseing over the pitot, and put a piece of tape over the static port.
I never run an engine if you can't take it up, it will never get hot enough to cook the moisture out.
There you have my $.02 for what it's worth.

Zane - any idea when you will open it up to the community to create/edit content?

Absolutely pickle it. It's just not worth the risk of rust. (Which WILL happen to some degree without pickling) You just don't want to pay the piper for not doing this. -OVERHAUL. -Ask me how I know? At the vary least,change the oil and filter to get rid of all the nasty old corrosive oil out of the engine. Order up yourself a case of AeroShell 2F Flyaway oil. Follow the instructions in the TCM pdf link and you're good to go. You will have a piece of mind that your engine will emerge from hibernation without issues, when you are done cramming your head with aerodynamic minutia, choking on jet exhaust and have no hearing left from all the turbine whine! Good Luck! - with UPT and study hard!

AeroShell 2F link. http://www.shell.com/global/products-se ... es/2f.html

Continental Storage link http://www.woodardfamily.com/hosted/Part%203.pdf

Well, I see a couple more options. I don't know what's best to be honest, but just wanted to present them here:

1) Your insurance policy probably permits a mechanic in the employ of his duties to fly it. Find a mechanic who wants to fly it once a month to keep it in good mechanical shape. Paying the mechanic is probably cheaper than fixing the insurance. (and the right mechanic might cut you a good deal...) Besides they are trained and know what to look and listen for.

2) Find a friend to pay for the insurance cost difference for a free hour of flying per month. Maybe the numbers work out, maybe they don't.

Flying some friends aircraft and looking after some small things assumable for free in turn for an hour or two of hobbs time per month is not unheard of. There's a local or two that keeps track of some otherwise owner-abandoned and neglected planes around here in a similar manner, that will probably never get flown again by their owners, but that's another story. As for the insurance situation? I have not a clue.

This all depends on what kind of storage you are going to have. Tied down outside in the rain? In a hangar? In a barn?

I would do WHATEVER you have to do in order to get it stored inside. My guess is that this is the single most important thing by far.

Plugging up all the holes, rubber balls, tape over the gaps and openings, etc. is very good advice. Pickling is also good advice, since you know in advance that you are leaving. Most people don't realize they have to pickle, because it is a surprise that they are leaving, or going broke, or going into the hospital, etc.

Take the Bushwheels off and put used 6.00 or 8.00 on. That way you can preserve the Bushwheels and tubes inside and out with Armor All or whatever Wup suggests as a preservative.

Once again, I think that finding space in a hangar is absolute top priority by a factor of 10.

Thanks for all of the ideas guys. Luckily it will be in a hangar/barn. No climate control. I like the idea of the fly away oil and I never would have thought to grab a set of junk tires to throw on it. All great ideas keep them coming please. I have built some mouse barriers already around my wheels and tires out of rolled sheet metal.

FARMAULE wrote:Thanks for all of the ideas guys. Luckily it will be in a hangar/barn. No climate control. I like the idea of the fly away oil and I never would have thought to grab a set of junk tires to throw on it. All great ideas keep them coming please. I have built some mouse barriers already around my wheels and tires out of rolled sheet metal.

If you have mice barriers I would still put the Bounce in the plane, if mice are around, the chance of a packrat, woodrat or what ever they callem there is high! They can really mess up a plane in a hurry, the bounce will keep them out!
Like EZ said tape every hole up even if it's only a 1/4 inch wide!!

I went to Oklahoma a year or so ago to buy an M5 with a virtually new IO360. It had about 100 hours on new crank, cam and factory cylinders. A close visual turned up a lot of rust in the oil filler neck. Oil analisys showed extremely high iron. The owner, who came across as very credible and honest, said he had religiously run the motor at least once a week on the ground. After consulting the big heads here on BCP, and some ground based friends, I think the consensus was that although the motor had been run, it wasn't either long enough or hot enough to completely drive the water from the crank case and the reason the filler neck was so rusted was that it was the high point where the water vapor collected and was also the first place to cool and condense. So, based on that experience, i'd be inclined to go with either pickling or some form of heat on the motor while hangared and then the ground runs by the friend, assuming that he can taxi it without incuring non insured damage.
Good luck!

With most modern opposed cylinder engines you simply can't get them warm enough on the ground to cook off the moisture (gasoline contains entrained water, which comes off as a byproduct of combustion) in the engine. Generally, ground running an engine in storage is a very bad idea. Not only moisture, but the engine doesn't properly cool, and some parts get a lot hotter than others.

Lycoming offers guidance in their "Tips" document online on how to pickle an engine.

Find a knowledgeable mechanic, get desiccant plugs for the engine and exhaust, fill it with preservative oil, and go fly AF equipment.

Congratulations on being selected for UGPT.

MTV

One other idea I remember hearing from an old mechanic. I have NOT done this myself but it certainly seems to make some sense.

Fill up the crankcase and cylinders with oil. The cheapest decent car motor oil. I'm not saying to fill it up to the oil dipstick operating line, I'm saying fill up the entire case to submerge the crank, rods, cam, lifters. Take out the top spark plug and fill the cylinders too, then replace the upper plug.

Put cap-plugs over the exhaust, since the oil will try to leak out through any open valves. Fill it up until it comes out the crankcase breather vent, and then even run a hose "standpipe" up above the engine.

This will take several gallons of oil. As long as you start off with no moisture or water in the case, the oil will not only coat all the exposed metal, but the metal will be submerged in oil. Although this sounds pretty extreme, and will make a heck of a mess when you drain all of it out, you would have about as close to a guarantee of preservation as is possible. Fifty or a hundred dollars in oil might prevent cylinder rust, or cam lobe rust which could cost thousands.

Do I need to put any stabilizer into the avgas, if so what's the mix percentage?

FARMAULE wrote:Do I need to put any stabilizer into the avgas, if so what's the mix percentage?

Not needed as long as you have straight avgas, it is very stable.

Definitely stay away from the ground runs, preservative oil and plugging openings much better option. Better yet, bring it my way for a dry hangar and regular flying exercise .

Mark J

anybody have any experience with the Tanis engine preservation kit?